You said you think you visited hell. I know I did. And it was more real than anything I've experienced. It was the most amount of fear I'd ever felt in my life. My body was contorted.
你说过你认为你去过地狱。我知道我去过。而且它比我经历过的任何事都更真实。那是我一生中感受到的最强烈的恐惧。我的身体扭曲了。
It was doing things that the human body shouldn't do. Do you think you were possessed? Because subsequently, you've had several exorcisms. Yes. The things that are happening are just undeniable.
它做出了人体不该做出的动作。你认为自己被附身了吗？因为随后，你接受了几次驱魔。是的。正在发生的事情是无可否认的。
What happened? I'll tell you what I experienced. Just before we get into all of that, you have lived a remarkable life. I was in a US Navy, went to Iraq, Haiti, Afghanistan, and done some insane missions.
发生了什么？我会告诉你我所经历的。在我们进入这一切之前，你过着非凡的生活。我曾在美军海军服役，去过伊拉克，海地、阿富汗，执行过一些疯狂的任务。
I mean, you learn a lot of critical life lessons, but there's another side, too. I mean, you get addicted to those type of environments. Adrenaline. And after your CIA contracting role, you moved to Medlin, Columbia.
我的意思是，你学到了很多重要的人生教训，但还有另一面，也是。我是说，你会对那种环境上瘾。肾上腺素。在你的中情局合同工作之后，你搬到了麦德林，哥伦比亚。
Yeah. It was probably the most dangerous thing I'd ever done. Did you get involved in the drug dealing networks? Yes. I never really dealt. It was more setting up the network, figuring out who the players are that gave me the rush.
是的。这可能是我做过的最危险的事情。你是否参与了毒品交易网络？是的。我从未真正应对过。更多是建立网络，弄清楚哪些玩家给了我那种快感。
There's not very many people that can pull some like that off. But then this guy Freddy, he said, "The police were after me." They had planted a bug in the light fixture outside of my door.
能像那样做出那种事的人不多。但后来这个叫弗雷迪的家伙，他说：“警察在追我。”他们在我的门外灯饰里装了窃听器。
And then they You now have built one of the biggest podcasts on planet Earth. Yes, but my show will not appear in popular podcasts because it's something that I was saying a long time ago.
然后他们你现在已经打造了最大的播客之一在这个地球上。是的，但我的节目不会出现在热门播客中因为这是我很久以前就一直在说的。
It had to do with That is very weird. Do you think podcasters are being compromised by guests being planted on their shows or in other ways? Yes. Here's one example. Trump administration crushed it in the election cycle, right?
这与那有关。那非常奇怪。你认为播客主们正在被收买吗通过被安插的嘉宾在他们的节目中或以其他方式？是的。这里有一个例子。特朗普政府在选举周期中彻底获胜，对吧？
Really utilized the podcast. They saw the power of it. It was a great tactic and so I think that they have people inside of all the platforms that we use and this has happened to me because one time I had a guy come on and we can talk about that.
确实充分利用了播客。他们看到了它的力量。这是一个很好的策略，所以我认为他们在我们使用的所有平台内部都有人这种事也发生在我身上因为有一次有个人上了我的节目我们可以聊聊那件事。
And you endorsed Trump before the election. I wanted him to win. Have you changed your opinion on Trump now? yeah, for a multitude of reasons. I probably shouldn't be satisfied. Before this episode starts, I have a small favor to ask you.
你在选举前支持了特朗普。我希望他赢。你现在对特朗普的看法改变了吗？是的，出于多种原因。我或许不该感到满足。在这集开始之前，我有个小忙想请你帮一下。
Two months ago, 61% of the people that watch this channel weren't subscribed. We're now down to 58%. My goal is 50%. So, if you've ever liked any of the videos we've made on this channel, if you like this channel, can you do me a small quick favor and hit the subscribe button?
两个月前，观看这个频道的人中有61%没有订阅。现在降到了58%。我的目标是50%。所以，如果你曾经喜欢过任何视频我们在这个频道上制作的，如果你喜欢这个频道，你能帮我一个小忙，点击订阅按钮吗？
It helps this channel more than you know. And the bigger the channel gets, the more we can invest in bringing you even better guests. Thank you and enjoy this episode.
这对频道的帮助比你想象的要大得多。频道规模越大，我们就越能投入资源，为你带来更好的嘉宾。谢谢，祝您观看愉快。
Sean Ryan, you have lived a remarkable life for so many different reasons. I feel like you've lived several different lives as well, dare I say. But for anybody that might not be familiar with your smash hit show and your incredible journey through the military, can you give me a a topline on the career that you've had before you got into podcasting for those that might not know?
肖恩·瑞安，你度过了非凡的一生，原因有很多不同的方面。我觉得你仿佛也活过了好几段不同的人生，恕我直言。但对于可能还不熟悉的人来说你那档爆红的节目以及你在军中的非凡历程你能给我简要介绍一下你之前的职业生涯吗在你开始做播客之前，给那些可能不了解的人？
Yeah, joined the US Navy. It I think I enlisted at age 17, went straight to into the Navy Seal program, went to BUDS, went to SEAL teammate, spent 5 and a half years in the Navy, and then left that, became a real estate agent.
是的，加入了美国海军。我想我是在17岁时入伍的，直接进入了海豹突击队项目，去了基础水下爆破训练，去了海豹突击队队友，在海军待了五年半，然后离开了那里，成为了一名房地产经纪人。
I had read a book by Donald Trump way back then on this is it, how to get rich. It inspired me to become an entrepreneur and failed miserably. So then I looked at government contracting, started contracting for central intelligence agencies, started a small state department gig, got picked up for the CIA contract, did that through Blackwater, then jumped over to a company called Socked and then wound up getting picked up direct contractor for the agency of No Middleman.
我当时读过唐纳德·特朗普写的一本书，就是这本，如何致富。它激励我成为一名企业家却惨遭失败。于是我把目光投向政府合同，开始为中央情报机构做承包，接了个国务院的小活儿，被选中拿下中情局的合同，通过黑水公司做那项工作，然后跳槽到一家叫Socked的公司最终被直接聘为承包商为“无中间人”机构工作。
And you said that you wanted to be a Navy Seal. Now, for for international audiences that might not know what a Navy Seal is relative to just like being in the army, what is the distinction?
你说过你想成为一名海豹突击队员。现在，对于国际观众来说可能不知道海豹突击队员是什么相对于只是在军队里，有什么区别？
A Navy seal stands for sea, air, and land. So, you operate in the sea, air, and the land. It's special operations. So, it is one of the most prolific special operations units in the world.
海豹突击队代表海、空、陆。所以，你们在海上、空中和陆地上执行任务。这是特种作战。因此，它是世界上最多产的特种作战部队之一。
You go through a training pipeline that's a couple years long. you go through buds, which if you make it without getting hurt or without getting rolled back, that's 6 months. I didn't make it without rolling back.
你要经历一个长达几年的训练流程。你要经历基础水下爆破训练，如果你能顺利通过而不受伤，或者不被淘汰回退，那就是6个月。我没能不被淘汰回退。
So, I think I spent about 9 months there. Then you go to jump school. Then you go to SQT SEAL qualification training, which is kind of where they turn you into I guess I shouldn't say they turn you into a special operator, but but that's the the final school.
所以，我想我在那里待了大约9个月。然后你去跳伞学校。然后你去SQT海豹资格训练，那差不多是把你变成我想我不该说他们把你变成特种作战人员，但但那是最后一所学校。
Then you get your SEAL trident and then you spend another year or two, year and a half training at your SEAL team before you ever even get the opportunity to to to deploy for the country.
然后你就能获得你的海豹突击队三叉戟徽章接着你还要再花一两年，在你的海豹突击队训练一年半之后你才有可能获得机会为为国家为国家部署。
Diving, jumping, land warfare, demolition, small unit tactics, lots of time in a kill house, lots of time in land warfare, all different operational environments, desert, winter, jungle, you name it, we're in it.
潜水、跳跃、陆战，爆破、小队战术，大量时间在室内近战训练场，大量时间在陆战训练，所有不同的作战环境，沙漠、冬季、丛林，你能说出的，我们都去过。
Is it equivocal to the SAS which is like the British version of the special operations team? I would say yeah SAS or SPS. Okay. And you must have seen some pretty horrific interesting unforgettable things while you were on those tours of duties around the world.
它和SAS差不多吗SAS就像是英国版的特种作战部队？我会说是的，SAS或SPS。好的。你一定见过一些相当可怕、有趣、令人难忘的事情，当你在世界各地的那些执勤之旅中。
Yeah. Yeah. Oper. The first thing I ever saw that was that that that was warfareish. It wasn't really hot. I thought it was hot at the time, but 2004 we went to Haiti when Aristid got pulled out of power.
是的。是的。手术。我见过的第一个那种那种那种像战争一样的东西。其实并不热。我当时觉得很热，但2004年我们去了海地，当时阿里斯蒂德被赶下台。
It was the first time I'd really seen true poverty. And I don't know if you've ever been there, but I mean, you know, the sewage goes right into the streets. All the prisoners had broken out.
那是我第一次真正看到真正的贫困。我不知道你有没有去过那里，但我的意思是，你知道，污水直接流到街上。所有囚犯都越狱了。
We there were dead bodies floating around the water, bullet holes everywhere. Every once in a while, I'd see a car on fire. I mean, it was just vast chaos. It really wasn't anything compared to what I would see later on.
我们那儿有水面上漂浮着尸体，到处都是弹孔。偶尔，我会看到一辆汽车着火。我的意思是，那只是一片巨大的混乱。与我后来所见到的相比，这真的不算什么。
But but that was the first place. And then Afghanistan we went there after Operation Red Wings happened. That was the biggest loss in SEAL team history at the time. What was Operation Red Wings?
但但那是第一个地方。然后我们去了阿富汗在红翼行动发生之后。那是当时海豹突击队历史上最大的损失。什么是红翼行动？
Have you ever seen the movie Lone Survivor? No. Okay. There was a a sniper element on a mountaintop that was that was surveilling a town that had a highv value terrorist in in there.
你看过电影《孤独的幸存者》吗？没有。好吧。山顶上有一个狙击手小队他们在监视一个城镇那里有一个高价值恐怖分子。
And the sniper hide was compromised by a goat herder. Goat herder went back to town and told everybody what he had seen and then and then they ambushed the element up there. Helicopters went down and then there was one guy that survived it.
而狙击手的藏身之处被一个牧羊人暴露了。牧羊人回到镇上告诉了所有人他所看到的一切，然后然后他们在那里伏击了小队。直升机坠毁了，然后有一个人在那次事件中幸存了下来。
And so it was it was the biggest loss ever in Seal Team history at the time. That happened in on June 28th and I think we were there by late late September, early October, I believe, is when we were there.
所以这是海豹队当时历史上最大的损失。那发生在6月28日，我想我们是在九月下旬，十月初到的那里，我记得是那个时候。
We did some hit some targets, but they were pretty much all dry holes. Grabbed a couple of prisoners. stuff like that. And then we actually went home early. And then I went to Iraq.
我们确实击中了一些目标，但基本上全是干井。抓了几个囚犯。诸如此类的事情。然后我们实际上提前回家了。然后我去了伊拉克。
Well, I went to Iraq. My platoon went home. I decided I wanted to get out at that point. it just for me it wasn't really what it was what I thought it was going to be. What was it?
嗯，我去了伊拉克。我的排回家了。那时我决定想要退出。只是对我来说，它并不是我以为它会成为的样子。它是什么？
I thought it would be a lot more combat. I wanted to go out every night and do the job, do direct actions, do CQB, do sniper stuff, whatever. I just wanted to work. And we weren't getting that in Afghanistan.
我以为会有更多的战斗。我想每晚都出去执行任务，采取直接行动，进行室内近战，干狙击手的活，什么都行。我只是想干活。我们在阿富汗并没有得到这些。
It was few and far between. This was 05 time frame and 0506 time frame. I can't remember what happened. but the elections were dragging on and so I had a OIC which is kind of like the leader of a of a SEAL platoon.
这种情况少之又少。那是05年和0506年的时候。我不记得发生了什么。但选举一直在拖延，而且所以我有一个OIC这有点像海豹突击队一个小队的队长。
He had found a way to farm us out to conventional units that were getting hit were getting hit on supply routes with with roadside bombs, suicide bombers, stuff like that. And so we would attach into these conventional units and train them up.
他找到了一种方法，把我们分配到常规部队那些遭到袭击的部队在补给路线上遭到袭击用路边炸弹，自杀式炸弹袭击者，诸如此类的东西。于是我们会附属于这些常规部队并训练他们。
Hey, this is how you this is how you run surveillance. This is how you come up with a mission basically. And we would teach them everything from how to plan the mission to how to set up a sniper hide, how to shoot, how to insert, how to Xfill, how to position all the different teams.
嘿，这就是你，这就是你进行监视的方法。基本上这就是你制定任务的方法。我们会教他们一切从如何策划任务到如何设置狙击隐蔽点，如何射击，如何潜入，如何撤离，如何部署各个不同的队伍。
And then we would go out there. We would take them with us and hunt the people that were killing our guys. And every time we went out, we'd we had killed the bad guys, the terrorists within within 24 hours of being out there.
然后我们会去那里。我们会带上他们去猎杀那些人那些杀害我们弟兄的人。每次我们出去，我们都会在，在出去后的24小时内击杀那些坏人，那些恐怖分子。
And then we move on to the next unit and that was my last deployment. When you came back from the SEAL team, were you a different man? Definitely. In what way were you changed? A lot of ways.
然后我们转移到下一个部队，那是我最后一次部署。当你从海豹突击队回来时，你还是原来那个人吗？当然。你在哪些方面发生了变化？很多方面。
you learn a lot of critical life lessons in the SEAL teams and being in environments like that and your personal drive just goes through the roof. what you realize that you can accomplish as a human being is far more than I think what the normal person thinks.
在海豹突击队中，你会学到很多关键的人生教训身处那样的环境中你的个人动力会飙升到极点。你会意识到，作为一个人，你所能完成的远远超出我认为普通人所想的。
your ability to to work in stress in extreme stress goes through the roof. There's another side too. I mean you get addicted to adrenaline. You get addicted those type envir of environments.
你在压力下、在极端压力下工作的能力会飙升到极点。还有另一面。我是说你会对肾上腺素上瘾。你会对这类环境上瘾。
You succumb to the culture that comes with that which is a lot of drinking, fighting, all those things. So you're in the Navy Seals. Mhm. You contract with the CIA for a while and then I guess the other, you know, pretty tremendous accomplishment is you now have built one of the biggest podcasts on planet earth where you interview people just like I do here.
你会屈服于随之而来的文化，那就是大量的饮酒，打架，所有那些事情。所以你在海豹突击队。嗯。你曾与中情局签约一段时间然后我猜另一个你知道，相当巨大的成就是你现在已经打造了最大的播客之一在地球上你在那里采访人们，就像我在这里做的一样。
That is correct. Do you think podcasters are being compromised by sort of guests being planted? Yes. I have no proof, but yes. And in a in a couple of different ways. So here's one Not just podcast.
没错。你认为播客们正在被妥协吗因为嘉宾被安插进来？是的。我没有证据，但没错。而且是以几种不同的方式。所以这里有一个，不只是播客。
Let's go influencers, not just podcasters. So Trump administration crushed it in the elections in the election cycle, right? Different podcasts, they they really utilized the podcast.
让我们成为有影响力的人，而不只是播客。所以特朗普政府在选举中大获全胜在选举周期中，对吧？不同的播客，他们确实利用了播客。
They saw the power of it. They utilized it and it was a great tactic. And then afterwards, you know, I think a lot of podcasters and influencers, they felt powerful because, you know, the they got close to the president, they got close to the administration.
他们看到了它的力量。他们利用了它，这是一个很棒的策略。然后之后，你知道，我觉得很多播客和网红，他们觉得自己很有权势，因为，你知道，他们接近了总统，他们接近了政府。
And if you saw what happened, you know, do you remember the ep the first Epstein file release? When they had all these people show up and they're holding up the binders and you know, they did not understand that the minute that happened, they were captured.
如果你看到了发生的事情，你知道，你还记得那一集吗第一次爱泼斯坦文件公布？当他们让所有这些人出现时他们举着那些活页夹，你知道，他们不明白，就在那一刻，他们就被抓住了。
Who was the everybody that was in those pictures? okay. Yeah. they can no longer be a freethinker because maybe they are a freethinker but the appearance that they just gave off is that they are in a tribe you know and they were smart to do this and and I've had several invites I always turn it down because no I don't I don't know I'm not doing that invites to where invites to wherever the white house football games the white house this that you know public events where you'll be seen where you'll be photographed where it looks like everybody's on one team and we're all having a party and we're all friends and all this You know, that's a way to capture what you're doing without you even realizing it and showing the world, hey, look, we have we have Steven.
那些照片里的每个人都是谁？好的。是的。他们不能再做一个自由思想者了因为也许他们就是一个自由思想者但他们刚刚展现出的外表就是他们属于一个部落，你知道他们这样做很聪明而且而且我收到过几次邀请，我总是拒绝因为不，我不，我不知道，我不会那样做哪里的邀请，哪里的邀请不管是白宫、足球比赛白宫这个那个，你知道的，公共活动在那里你会被看到，在那里你会被拍照在那里看起来每个人都属于同一个团队我们都在开派对，我们都是朋友，所有这一切你知道，那是一种捕捉你所做事情的方式甚至在你没有意识到的情况下并向世界展示，嘿，看，我们有，我们有史蒂文。
We've got him. We've got pictures of him holding binders up. We've got pictures of him at dinners with us. He's on our team. And maybe you didn't want that, but you were so fixated on being close to power that you didn't even realize it was happening.
我们抓住他了。我们有他举着活页夹的照片。我们有他和我们一起吃晚餐的照片。他是我们团队的人。也许你并不想那样，但你太执着于接近权力了，以至于你甚至没有意识到事情正在发生。
M. And now those those people those people are all captured. It feels like once in a lifetime stuff. Hey, we want you to come, you know, ride on Air Force One, ride on Marine One, do this, do this with us, do this.
M。而现在那些那些人那些人都被抓住了。感觉像是千载难逢的事。嘿，我们想让你来，你知道，乘坐空军一号，乘坐海军陆战队一号，做这个，和我们一起做这个，做这个。
I'm not doing any of that I know what this is. You're trying to capture me and put me into a group. You know, you can't allow that to happen. Otherwise, you hit a ceiling. And and the minute that happens, you've hit the ceiling.
我不会做任何那样的事，我知道这是什么。你想抓住我，把我拉进一个群体里。你知道，你不能允许那发生。否则，你就会碰到天花板。而一旦那发生，你就已经碰到天花板了。
and you don't know what kind of decisions these people are going to wind up making later on. So that was one of the ways you can be That's one of the ways you're talking about people being inserted into the podcast circuit.
而你并不知道这些人之后会做出什么样的决定。所以这是你可以这是你谈论人们被插入播客圈子的方式之一。
Yeah. I think there are definitely people that are in the podcast circuit that are planted but maybe they don't even know guests or hosts or both. Probably both. you know, but like you said, we were talking about it offline, but yeah, I think there are guests that come out of nowhere and all of a sudden you see these these people that nobody's ever heard of and they get just unfathomable traction and numbers, but it's not because they have a good life story.
是的。我认为肯定有一些人在播客圈子里是被安插的但也许他们自己都不知道嘉宾或主持人，或者两者都是。很可能两者都是。你知道，但就像你说的，我们私下聊过这个，但没错，我觉得有些嘉宾是凭空冒出来的突然你就看到这些人没人听说过他们他们却获得了难以理解的关注度和数据，但这并不是因为他们有精彩的人生故事。
It's not because of something miraculous that they've done. It's just they're talking about current events, you know, and I think the way that this works is, you know, you could talk to somebody for 2, three, four, five hours, you know, but the mission, you know, the piece of it may only be one sentence that they know is going to hit that they know, you know, they're hoping gets clipped or they can clip and then that goes viral or maybe we've done something.
也不是因为他们做了什么了不起的事。只是他们在谈论时事，你知道，我觉得这运作的方式是，你知道，你可以和某人聊两、三、四、五个小时，你知道，但那个关键，你知道，其中可能只有一句话他们知道那句话会击中他们知道会你知道，他们希望被剪辑出来，或者他们能剪辑然后那就会疯传，或者也许我们做了什么。
This has happened to me. These people can come on and they'll make predictions about what's going to happen in different geopolitical events that are going around the world. You know, Ukraine, Israel, Iran, whatever it is, you know, whatever the thing, and then you get a text, you know, hey, you know, I call I told you this was going to happen.
这发生在我身上过。这些人可以上来，他们会做出预测关于什么将会在不同的地缘政治事件中发生正在世界各地发生的。你知道，乌克兰，以色列，伊朗，不管是什么，你知道，不管是什么事情，然后你收到一条短信，你知道，嘿，你知道，我打电话告诉过你这事会发生。
And it's like, you did tell me. How the did you know that? You know, and and it's like, how do you how do you even remember that you said that? Because you did 50 shows, you know, you did 50 different podcasts and in a two month span.
就像，你确实告诉过我。你到底是怎么知道的？你知道，而且而且就像，你怎么你怎么还记得自己说过那话？因为你做了50场节目，你知道，你在两个月内做了50个不同的播客。
How do you remember you said that on mine? And when I have things like that happen, I'm like, "Oh, they got me." I wouldn't have believed any of this. I wouldn't, as an ordinary civilian, I wouldn't have believed any of this stuff even existed.
你怎么记得你在我的节目上说过那个？当这种事发生在我身上时，我会想，“哦，他们抓住我了。”我本来不会相信这一切。作为一个普通平民，我不会，我不会相信这些东西竟然真的存在。
until I started learning about the spy organizations around the world and because I don't how do I say this? You kind of grow up thinking the world is as it seems and then you learn and then you see I don't know James Bond and you go okay that's a movie and at some point I realized that these things were actually true like that there are lots of different sort of spy agencies and networks around the world and they use all these operations.
直到我开始了解世界各地的间谍组织而且因为我不，这该怎么说呢？你从小长大，觉得世界就是它看起来的样子然后你学习，然后你看到，我不知道詹姆斯·邦德然后你说好吧那只是电影，而在某个时刻我意识到这些事情其实是真实的，就像世界上有各种各样不同的间谍机构和网络他们使用所有这些行动。
They compromise people. They put them in certain situations. There are people living here in New York City right now that are living lives we assume are real. They've got families.
他们让人妥协。他们把他们置于某些情境中。现在就有人们住在纽约市过着我们以为是真实的生活。他们有家庭。
They've got jobs. They've got businesses. They've got all these things. but they're actually planted from another country and that other country is like funneling the money to support them and prop up a fake life.
他们有工作。他们有生意。他们拥有所有这些。但实际上它们是从另一个国家植入的而那个其他国家就像输送资金来支持他们并支撑一个虚假的生活。
Like when I learned all these things, I suddenly became very cautious generally about like calling anything a conspiracy. And then you sit here with these spies, I mean probably you've interviewed a lot of CIA spies.
就像当我了解到所有这些事情时，我总体上突然变得非常谨慎关于把任何事称为阴谋论。然后你坐在这里和这些间谍在一起，我的意思是，你可能采访过很多CIA间谍。
If someone had heard someone saying this on a podcast, I would have thought they were a conspiracy theorist. I would have dismissed it and gone idiots. Now maybe from doing this, no, no, no, no. I it makes logical sense to me.
如果有人听到有人在播客上说这些，我会以为他们是阴谋论者。我本来会不予理会，然后骂他们大聪明。现在也许因为做了这件事，不，不，不，不。我，这对我来说合乎逻辑。
Like if I was insert adversary, that's what I would do. I would get insert great podcast guest. I'd get them because I'd know that the minute they have one good podcast performance, every podcast calls them.
就像如果我是插入的对手，我就会那么做。我会请来很棒的播客嘉宾。我能请到他们，因为我知道一旦他们在播客上有一场出色的表现，所有播客都会邀请他们。
You can do a 100 million views off just one good podcast performance. And can you influence a podcast performance? Can you send traffic to a podcast? Theoretically, could you? Of course you could.
仅凭一场出色的播客表现，你就能获得一亿次观看。你能影响播客的表现吗？你能给播客带来流量吗？理论上，你能做到吗？你当然可以。
I think you could. I think that you I think that they I think that they have people inside of all the platforms that we use. Here's an example. I started talking about a certain subject very early on.
我认为你可以。我认为你可以，我认为他们，我认为他们在所有平台内部都有人我们所使用的。这里有一个例子。我很早就开始谈论某个话题。
And I'm not going to say we got shadowbanned, but there was a lot I'm still not even in the top most what what is that section in YouTube? The most popular podcast. We're number three on Spotify today.
我不会说我们被影子封禁了，但有很多我甚至还没有进入最顶尖的那个那个在YouTube上是什么板块？最受欢迎的播客。我们今天在Spotify上排名第三。
We've been the number one on YouTube several different times, but I can't get into the my my show will not appear in popular podcasts because something that I was saying a long time ago.
我们曾在YouTube上多次排名第一，但我进不了我的我的节目不会出现在热门播客中因为很久以前我说过的一些话。
It was it it had to do with terrorism. this section. Oh, you'll never see mine in there. H we get like 150 to 200 million views a month. It's not in there. Yeah. Hey, you've got more US views this week than Rogan has.
这 是 这 这 与恐怖主义有关。这一部分。哦，你永远不会在那里看到我的。我们每月大概能获得1.5亿到2亿次观看。里面没有。是的。嘿，你这周在美国的观看量比罗根还多。
Isn't it? But anyways, so I think that there are people inside, you know, and I'm not saying that the companies even know, you know, cuz that's how that's how this game works. This is the intelligence work is, you know, is the primary job, but the cover is, I'm just an employee at YouTube.
不是吗？但不管怎样，所以我认为内部有人，你知道，我不是说公司们甚至知道，你知道，因为这这就是这个游戏的运作方式。这就是情报工作，你知道，这是主要工作，但掩护身份是，我只是YouTube的一名员工。
You know what I mean? I'm just an employee at Meta. I'm just an employee at Tik Tok. I'm just an employee. But it's a mole inside the organization that nobody really realizes is happening.
你明白我的意思吗？我只是Meta的一名员工。我只是Tik Tok的一名员工。我只是个员工。但这是组织内部的内鬼没人真正意识到正在发生。
You know, Annie Jacobson calls it speculative narratives instead of conspiracy theories. Speculative narratives. Speculative narratives. I love that. I mean, she knows a lot about conspiracy theories herself.
你知道，安妮·雅各布森称之为推测性叙事，而不是阴谋论。推测性叙事。推测性叙事。我喜欢这个。我是说，她本人对阴谋论了解很多。
I mean, she's like basically studied and proven a lot of them aren't conspiracies. So, I'm guessing she she's saying that in a way that is supportive of the idea that these speculative narratives are often true.
我是说，她基本上研究过并证明了很多并非阴谋论。所以，我猜她这么说在某种程度上是在支持这个观点即这些推测性的叙述往往是真实的。
Mhm. I'm not complaining. I have a great I have a great partnership with YouTube. I love they've been great to me. You know what I mean? I don't really give a if I'm in that or not.
嗯。我不是在抱怨。我和YouTube有着非常棒的合作关系。我喜欢他们，他们对我一直很好。你明白我的意思吗？我根本不在乎自己是否在那里面。
I just find it very odd that we're not, you know? It's just like, well, this doesn't make much sense. I think with all platforms there is there's a there's a human element where there's someone at the office picking.
我只是觉得我们不在，你知道，这很奇怪。就像，嗯，这说不通啊。我认为所有平台都存在人的因素办公室里有人在挑选。
I mean that's the case with all it seems to be the case with all these platforms. Did you endorse Trump before he before the election? I was supportive of him. I wanted him to win.
我是说所有平台似乎都是这种情况所有这些平台都是如此。你在选举前就支持特朗普了吗？我支持他。我希望他赢。
I don't think I gave any official endorsements or anything. I did get put in that that sphere. What nobody remembers is I've I offered the Democratic party I mean you can look it up.
我不认为我给出过任何正式的支持或什么的。我确实被放进了那个圈子里。没人记得的是，我，我向民主党提出过我是说你可以去查证。
I think it's on the Washington Post and we were talking to Kamla's team. I wanted to have her on. I wanted to have everybody on. So they said no. Comma Harris's team said no. They said no.
我想是在《华盛顿邮报》上当时我们在和卡玛拉的团队谈。我想让她上节目。我想让所有人都上节目。所以他们说了不。逗号 哈里斯的团队说了不。他们说了不。
But it wasn't just a hard note. We were talking about it. We were coming up with an outline. They I had all these things that I wanted to talk about. They said, "Well, we don't want to talk about that.
但这不仅仅是一个硬性备注。我们当时正在讨论这件事。我们正在拟定一个大纲。他们，我本来有所有这些想谈的事情。他们说：“我们不想谈那个。
We don't want to." I said, "I'll tell you what. You guys just tell me what you I don't care what you want to talk about. I know I can hold my own. So you you give me the topics and I'll develop the outline.
我们不想。”我说：“我告诉你们吧。你们直接告诉我你们……我不在乎你们想聊什么。我知道我能应付自如。所以你们给我话题，我来展开大纲。
How about And when Trump came on, was there anything he didn't want to talk about? There were no guidelines. I think this should be a little bit of a sort of a a lesson for the Democratic party about how to navigate in this these environments.
那当特朗普上场时，有什么他不想谈的话题吗？没有任何指导原则。我觉得这应该算是给民主党的一点教训，关于如何应对在这种环境中。
Yeah, they're learning. When Kamala came on my show, which was after the election and after she'd lost and all that stuff, no guidelines. really? Is there? That's good. She didn't tell me there was anything I couldn't talk about, but I think at that point she had they had nothing to lose.
是的，他们正在学习。当卡玛拉来上我的节目时，那是在选举之后在她败选以及所有那些事情之后，没有指导方针。真的吗？有吗？那很好。她没有告诉我有什么不能谈的，但我觉得那时她已经——他们已经没什么可失去的了。
I actually think at that point she didn't even have the same team anymore. That's good. She came in, she was, in my view, she was honest. She She said Joe Biden kind of screwed me over.
其实我觉得在那个时候她甚至都不再拥有同一支团队了。那很好。她进来了，在我看来，她很诚实。她 她说乔·拜登有点坑了我。
She was swearing. She There was none of this sort of like cookie cutter polish politician She just was super relaxed. That's good. And I just wish you'd offered that side of her to shows like yours beforehand cuz it would have been good to see the comparison.
她在骂人。她 完全没有那种千篇一律、精心包装的政客做派她就是非常放松。那很好。我只是希望你能把她那一面提供给像你这样的节目提前提供，因为能看到对比会很好。
Yeah, that's what I wanted to do, you know, and I I had RFK on when he was still running as an independent, but yeah, we we got very close to Camala and then at the last minute they backed out.
是的，那正是我想做的，你知道，我请了RFK来当时他还在以独立候选人身份参选，但是的，我们和Camala非常接近然后他们在最后一刻退出了。
I wish it would have happened. I don't think it would have changed the outcome, but but I wish it would have happened. Have you changed your opinion on Trump yeah.
我希望那件事发生过。我不认为那会改变结果，但是但是我希望那件事发生过。你对特朗普的看法改变了吗，是的。
man. for just for a multitude of reasons. I'm just, you know, to put it plainly, I'm I'm not really happy about anything that's happening right now. I think he's totally gone against what he said he was going to do.
老兄。仅仅是因为很多原因。我只是，你知道，直截了当地说，我对任何事情都不太满意现在正在发生的事。我觉得他完全违背了他说过要做的事。
And what do you think? Are you happy? I'm not an American, so I tend to like try and you know, but I think I mean, one of the things I think a lot about is this situation in Iran and how much of a blunder that appears to be.
那你觉得呢？你开心吗？我不是美国人，所以我倾向于喜欢尝试，你知道，但我想我的意思是，我经常思考的一件事就是伊朗的局势以及那看起来是多么大的一个失误。
I you know I don't know a ton about the military or war or conflict but logically I can't reason my way out of that situation like I can't find a good outcome at this point to what's going on there and because you have been a service person you served served for America I was curious to get your perspective on what you think is going on there and do you see a a golden bridge or a positive outcome?
我，你知道我对军事了解不多或者战争或冲突，但从逻辑上我无法推理出那种情况，就像我找不到在这一点上一个好的结果那里正在发生什么而且因为你一直是一名军人你曾为美国服役我很好奇想了解你的看法关于你认为那里正在发生什么你觉得有一座金色桥梁或一个积极的结果吗？
No. I I don't at this point I I don't I don't know what's going on there anymore. Nothing seems to make any damn sense to me. I don't think there's any positive outcome for America.
不。我，我现在不，我不，我不再知道那里发生什么了。对我来说，似乎什么都不再有任何该死的意义。我不认为美国会有任何积极的结果。
When you talk to your former colleagues in the military, what's the general sentiment around the deployment and the situation there? They think that they are involved for for another country's interests.
当你和你以前的军队同事交谈时，大家对部署的普遍看法是什么以及那里的情况如何？他们认为他们卷入其中是为了另一个国家的利益。
Whose interests is it for? I think Israel probably has the majority of the interest here. I sat with JD Vance. He said that, you know, we're the he said we're the we're the senior partner, but it sounds like your colleagues are saying that maybe that's not necessarily the case.
这是为了谁的利益？我认为以色列可能有这里的大部分利益。我和JD·万斯坐在一起。他说，你知道，我们是，他说我们是，我们是主要合作伙伴，但听起来你的同事们是在说也许情况未必如此。
It doesn't seem like that's the case to Did you buy the narrative that Trump invaded or started the war for reasons related to nuclear weapons? No. What do you think the real reason is, Sean?
看起来情况并非如此你相信了那套说法吗即特朗普入侵或发动战争是出于与核武器有关的原因？不。你觉得真正的原因是什么，肖恩？
I don't know. You know, anything I say would just be speculative, but I don't think they're for our interests. And so, why would Trump be sucked into doing something for a non-American country's interests?
我不知道。你知道，我说任何话都只是推测，但我不认为它们符合我们的利益。那么，特朗普为什么会被卷入做一些为了一个非美国国家利益的事情呢？
That's a great question. I don't know the answer to. Do you think America would have be better off if the Democrats had won? I think that these are seemingly more and more to be one and the same.
这是个很好的问题。我不知道答案。你觉得美国会不会更好如果民主党赢了的话？我觉得这些似乎越来越越来越像是同一回事。
And this is why you're sort of retracting from politics is because you're sort of you sounded like you're a bit disillusioned by one of these candidates. Yeah, I've had I mean it pretty much every one of them that I've had on has just slied straight to my face really until everybody who watches.
而这就是为什么你有点要从政治中抽身的原因因为你听起来有点像你有点 disillusioned（失望/幻灭）被这些候选人之一。是的，我有过，我的意思是几乎他们每一个人我请来的，都直接对我当面撒了谎，真的直到所有观看的人。
You know what I'm interested in is is I think that there is a possibility that maybe it's already happened but I think that there's a possibility that America may no longer be the superpower or will not be shortly for a multitude of reasons.
你知道我感兴趣的是，我认为有可能这件事已经发生了但我认为有一种可能性那就是美国可能不再是超级大国了或者出于多种原因，很快就会不是了。
I mean, if you look at, you know, the the power that that China's power structure, nuclear, they're going nuclear, and we're still batting around this here in America. Should we go nuclear?
我的意思是，如果你看看，你知道，中国的权力结构所拥有的力量，核能，他们正在走向核能，而我们在美国还在反复讨论这个问题。我们应该走向核能吗？
What are we going to do about our power grid? And the petro dollar. I mean, you've had what's that guy's name? He does a great breakdown on it. Professor the game theory guy. Yeah.
我们的电网该怎么办？还有石油美元。我是说，你刚才提到那个家伙叫什么来着？他对这个做了很棒的分析。教授，那个研究博弈论的人。是的。
Professor Chung. Yeah. He does a great breakdown of it. And I I mean when you think about it, it's like holy And and you think about everybody that we've pissed off, you know, in America.
钟教授。是的。他对此做了很好的分析。而且我，我是说，当你想想这件事，就像神圣的，而且你想想我们得罪过的所有人，你知道，在美国。
I mean like Canada for example, you know, they wanted to pipe in what is the Keystone pipeline. Biden said no. They don't want to. Trump says so they start to make deals with other countries, China.
我是说，比如加拿大，你知道，他们想输送，就是拱心石输油管道。拜登说不。他们不想要。特朗普说，所以他们开始与其他国家做交易，中国。
Now Trump is penalizing him for it. I can't remember the exact tariffs, but it went from somewhere around 25% to 50% to 100% or you know, whatever. But we're penalizing them and it's like man.
现在特朗普因此惩罚他。我记不清确切的关税，但大概从25%涨到了50%再到100%，或者你知道的，随便多少。但我们在惩罚他们，这就像，天哪。
4 years ago or less. They wanted to pipe it in. Now we got this new guy. He want And now we're going to penalize him because they're not going to pipe it in. And they're looking at us like, "These people are crazy.
4年前或更短。他们想把它输进来。现在我们有了这个新人。他想要 现在我们要惩罚他因为他们不会把它用管道输进来。而他们看着我们，好像在说：“这些人疯了。
They're like dealing with a schizophrenic. How do you do business with that? I mean, as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, you can't do business with with with an entity like that.
他们就像在和精神分裂症患者打交道。你怎么和那种人做生意？我的意思是，作为企业主，作为创业者，你没法跟那样的实体做生意。
You can't. And I think the whole world is is seeing this, you know, because it's happening to damn near the whole world except one country, Israel. But everybody else, you know, we're destroying our relationships with and and yeah, does does the US, you know, put in the majority of the money and take the, you know, like put in the majority of the risk, you know, with a lot of the things?
你做不到。而且我认为全世界都在看到这一点，你知道，因为这几乎发生在全世界除了一个国家，以色列。但其他人，你知道，我们在破坏我们之间的关系，而且，是的，美国是不是，你知道，投入大部分资金并承担，你知道，就像承担大部分风险，你知道，在很多事情上？
Yes, we do. But we still need allies, you know, and and you can't just and ruin everybody's trade infrastructure and oil trade and and and and penalize people for making changes for some for something that they tried to do earlier, you know, with you and and it's happening all over the world.
是的，我们是这样。但我们仍然需要盟友，你知道，而且你不能只是破坏所有人的贸易基础设施和石油贸易并且并且并且并且因为人们做出改变而惩罚他们因为他们之前试图做的某些事情，你知道，和你一起，而且这正在全世界发生。
And so one of the things that I'm interested in that I'm looking for is I want to start talking to starting with the UK. I want to talk about when you know what did it look like for the UK when when the US took the the superpower ship you know back in World War II.
所以，我感兴趣的事情之一我正在寻找的是，我想开始与从英国开始。我想谈谈当你知道当英国看起来是什么样子当美国接过超级大国的船舵时你知道早在二战期间。
What did that actually look like? Because all we hear is all this doom and gloom and you know you know it's going to be lawless. It's going to you know our currency is going to go to zero.
那实际上是什么样子的？因为我们听到的全是这些末日和悲观情绪，你知道你知道的，这会变得无法无天。你知道吗，我们的货币将会变得一文不值。
Look that that all might happen. It might. I don't know. I'm not. But it might be. Maybe it's I don't know. Maybe it's a good thing. Was it that bad in the UK when So, I want to bring on a historian to actually find out what what exactly did that look like.
看吧，那一切都有可能发生。有可能。我不知道。我不是。但也许是。也许是，我不知道。也许是件好事。在英国真的那么糟糕吗，当所以，我想请一位历史学家来真正弄清楚那到底是什么样的。
I'll tell you one thing. If we do lose it, it's going to take a lot of these a lot of pack money, you know, out of US politics. is going to, you know, hopefully force politicians to actually look at our country and and concentrate on our country.
我要告诉你一件事。如果我们真的失去了它，这将会耗费大量的这些，大量的竞选资金，你知道，从美国政治中。将会，你知道，希望能迫使政客们真正关注我们的国家并且并且专注于我们的国家。
You know, another thing I want to do, I I I probably shouldn't even be saying this. I want to do a thing called 50 states in 50 days where you go to the poorest parts of each state and just film it and look at this Look at this Why are we sending all of our money to all of these other foreign countries when this is happening right here in New York?
你知道，我还想做另一件事，我，我，我可能甚至不该说这个。我想做一个叫“50天走遍50个州”的项目就是去每个州最贫穷的地方把它拍下来，看看这个，看看这个为什么我们要把我们所有的钱都送给所有这些其他外国国家，而这种事就发生在纽约这里？
Tomorrow we're going to be in New Jersey and the next day we're going to be in Wisconsin. And then we're going to go to California, Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, every single state, and just show how much poverty and how disgusting certain parts of this country are.
明天我们会去新泽西后天我们会去威斯康星。然后我们要去加利福尼亚，阿拉巴马、密西西比、佛罗里达，每一个州，展示这个国家某些地方有多么贫穷、多么令人作呕，以及这个国家某些地方有多么令人作呕。
And why the are we sending all of our money to all these foreign countries? instead of taking care of our own people. It's disgusting. Our politicians have totally abandoned us. They're just they're runaways.
我们到底为什么要把所有的钱都送给所有这些外国？而不是照顾我们自己的人民。太恶心了。我们的政客完全抛弃了我们。他们只是，他们是逃兵。
And then I want to call out every single senator, congressman, governor, and just look at this. This is your state. This is your state. This is the state that you represent, and this is happening all around you.
然后我想点名每一位参议员，众议员、州长，看看这个。这是你们的州。这是你们的州。这就是你所代表的状态，而这正在你周围发生。
Look at this. H there's both I guess a disrespect here at home but there's also as you point it like a disrespect of allies and you know you can put the tariff there and whatever but I think one of the things that made the US the superpower that it is still but you know that's increasingly in question is there was this sort of peace by strength or whatever the phrase is like you're strong because you never really have to like say you are you don't act like a bully but we just know you're strong and then the minute you start acting like a bully, we start going, is that strength or is that insecurity?
看看这个。嗯，我想这里既有对本国的不尊重但正如你指出的，也有对盟友的不尊重你知道，你可以把关税加在那里，随便怎样但我认为其中一件事让美国成为它如今仍然是的那种超级大国但你知道，这一点越来越成问题就是这种以实力求和平或者不管那句话是怎么说的就像你很强大，因为你从来不必真正就像说你是你表现得不像个霸凌者，但我们就是知道你很强而当你一开始表现得像个霸凌者时我们就会开始想那是强大还是不安全感？
You know, this the minute you start insulting countries and being rude about their leaders and saying that I don't know, Canada is the 52nd state or whatever Trump said, that's when it starts to look a little bit more like insecurity.
你知道，当你一开始侮辱别的国家对他们的领导人无礼并说些我不知道的加拿大是第52个州之类的特朗普说的话那时候它就开始看起来更像是不安全感了。
And also, that's when I think some of these nations go, like maybe we need to band together ourselves instead of banding together with the United States. And I think you're seeing that in Europe now with what's going on with Iran.
而且，那也是我认为其中一些国家会想，也许我们需要自己联合起来而不是与美国联合。我认为你现在在欧洲就能看到这一点，随着伊朗局势的发展。
The European leaders are now coming back together and saying, "Fuck, like we might not be as safe as we thought we were with in the US's, you know, with the US's leadership. And so we need to form a new type of leadership."
欧洲领导人现在正重新聚在一起并说，“妈的，我们可能并不像自己以为的那么安全，在美国的，你知道，在美国的领导下。因此，我们需要形成一种新型的领导力。”
It's it's it's an interest really interesting time. And you know what? One might say that China are playing it very smart, not making enemies with anybody. That calm strength. They don't need to do anything.
这这这是一个非常有趣的时期。你知道吗？有人可能会说，中国玩得非常聪明，不与任何人树敌。那种平静的力量。他们不需要做任何事。
They're watching us self-destruct right now. in real time. Do you care about the 2028 election? Are you going to get involved in it if the politicians will want to come back on your show?
他们正看着我们自我毁灭。实时。你关心2028年的选举吗？你会参与其中吗如果政客们会想要回到你的节目上？
I don't know. I mean, it depends. Right now, I think probably not. If there were to be some type of a third party, then I would probably get involved. But right now, with what I see, I just don't really see any strong candidates.
我不知道。我的意思是，这要看情况。现在，我想大概不会。如果真有某种第三方介入的话，那我可能会参与进来。但就目前而言，根据我所看到的情况，我真的没看到什么强有力的候选人。
You mentioned you had someone on your podcast called Blair who said something which was slightly suspicious to you. Blair Skoro. Yeah. Yeah. I think that ICE got him and they're trying to deport him out of the country or something.
你提到过你的播客里有个叫布莱尔的人他说了些让你觉得有点可疑的话。布莱尔·斯科罗。是的。是的。我觉得是移民及海关执法局抓了他，他们想把他驱逐出这个国家之类的。
We got an email about it, which if he was an asset, actually did all that stuff for us, which, you know, I think he did. What happened? I guess I I don't know the full scope. I just know that he got wrapped up by ICE and it sounds like they're going to deport him and that he's worried that if they deport him that he's going to be killed.
我们收到了一封关于此事的邮件，如果他真是为我们工作的资产，确实为我们做了那些事，你知道的，我觉得他做了。发生了什么？我想，我不知道全部情况。我只知道他被ICE抓了听起来他们打算把他驱逐出境他担心如果他们把他驱逐出境他会被杀害。
Apparently ICE doesn't care about that. But yeah, you know, he came on and we were talking about it was a life story basically in a nutshell. He came on and he was a he got recruited out of prison to infiltrate the Islamic terrorist cells, the Muslim Brotherhood.
显然ICE不在乎这些。但没错，你知道，他上节目来了，我们聊的基本上就是他的人生故事，简单来说。他上了节目，他是一个——他是从监狱里被招募出来的去渗透伊斯兰恐怖分子小组，穆斯林兄弟会。
He's an American. He is from I can't remember eastern block country. He was able to infiltrate all these like huge like terrorist cells that had huge weapons cachets and he would go and and he was a CIA asset and he would go and and do the deal and then all of that those caches would get shipped to another country where it would and then it would be in CIA's hands.
他是个美国人。他来自一个我记不清的东欧国家。他能够渗透进所有这些像巨大的恐怖组织细胞那些拥有大量武器藏匿点的组织，他会去而且而且他是中情局的线人，他会去而且而且完成交易，然后所有那些藏匿点的武器会被运到另一个国家在那里，然后就会落入中情局手中。
And so we had this we long conversation about this and then all of a sudden he starts talking about Russians getting nukes into the US and it was just so out of left field. It made me think, you know, I just said earlier, you know, you you could talk to somebody for two, three, four, five, six, however many hours and maybe they just need one thing inserted into the podcast, you know, to start a new narrative or to reinforce a current narrative.
于是我们就这样进行了长时间的交谈然后突然间他开始谈起俄罗斯人把核武器运进美国的事，这实在是太突兀了。这让我思考，你知道，我刚才说过，你知道，你可以和某人聊两个，三个、四个、五个，六个，无论多少个小时，也许他们只需要一件事插入到播客中，你知道，来开启一个新的叙事或者强化当前的叙事。
You know, there's a big back then, still is today, you know, big narrative. We we all need to we all need to hate Russia. Maybe we do, maybe we don't. I'm not saying either way, but you know, for us to be talking about the global war on terror and his time is a CIA asset infiltrating terrorist networks and and and derailing massive weapons caches back to wherever they were going, you know, and then all of a sudden for him to talk about the bringing in nuclear warheads or whatever it was into the US, it was like and I think I challenged him right on the show and I said, "You know, how do I know that you weren't sent here just to put that one sentence into the show?
你知道，当时有一个大的，如今依然如此，你知道，宏大的叙事。我们都必须，我们都必须憎恨俄罗斯。也许我们确实如此，也许我们并非如此。我不是说哪种情况，但你知道，我们谈论全球反恐战争以及他作为中情局资产渗透恐怖网络的时候还有还有还有破坏大规模武器藏匿点让它们回到原本要去的地方，你知道，然后突然间他谈到把核弹头带入或者不管是什么带入美国，就像，我想我在节目上直接质疑了他然后我说，“你知道，我怎么知道你不是被派到这里就为了把那一句话塞进节目里？
That came out of left field. That doesn't fit anywhere with any conversation that we've been talking about." What did he say? He was, you know, taken back. I don't remember exactly what he said.
那句话来得太突然了。那句话跟我们一直在谈论的任何对话都对不上。”他怎么说？他当时，你知道，很惊讶。我不太记得他具体说了什么。
You could probably find the clip somewhere, but that's that's how it happens. That's how it happens. I'm not saying that he is or isn't one. I'm saying that's what it looks like when it happens.
你大概能在什么地方找到那段视频，但事情就是这样发生的。事情就是这样发生的。我不是说他是或不是。我是说事情发生时就是这个样子。
And your gut sometimes tells you that you're interviewing someone who is probably still working on behalf of an agency. Uhhuh. Do you delete a lot of episodes? No. I've had I've had episodes that I didn't delete or that I never aired.
而你的直觉有时会告诉你你正在采访的这个人可能仍在为某个机构工作。嗯哼。你会删除很多剧集吗？不。我有过，我有过没有删除的片段或者我从未播出的。
I've had I don't know, not very many, but I've had a handful. You know what is the reason typically? Well, one time I had a guy come on. This was about the COVID vaccine. And he comes on and and he's talking about how the COVID vaccine was was developed in a lab and was patented way before CO even came out.
我有过，我不知道，不是很多，但我有过少数几次。你知道通常原因是什么吗？嗯，有一次有个人来找我。那是关于新冠疫苗的。他来了，然后他在说新冠疫苗是如何在实验室里研发出来的而且早在新冠出现之前就被申请了专利。
And it it was very compelling and I didn't really think about it until afterwards. But afterwards when I was thinking about the interviews, some of these interviews I'll think about all weekend or you know days to weeks sometimes after they happen.
而且它非常引人入胜事后我才真正开始思考这件事。但后来当我回想那些采访时，有些采访我会整个周末都在想或者你知道，有时在采访发生后的几天甚至几周里都会想。
I mean it sounded super compelling and maybe it was real. I don't know. But every time he would it was co 19 co. But then when he would say he wouldn't say the covid vaccine was patented prior to 2020 he would say the sars vaccine was patented prior to you know so but but the narrative was the covid-19 vaccine
我的意思是，它听起来极其引人入胜，也许它是真实的。我不知道。但每次他说的时候都是新冠19新冠。但然后当他说他不会说新冠疫苗是在2020年之前就获得专利的 他会说非典疫苗获得了专利在那之前 你知道所以但是但是那个说法是新冠19疫苗
patented long before co 19 ever even came out. But like I said, he would switch it. He would switch. We would be saying co CO, but then he would say the SARS vaccine. And so he left and I was like, I mean, there's got to be like a million different there's there's like thousands of variations of SARS and CO.
在新冠19甚至还没出现之前很久就获得了专利。但就像我说的，他会换掉它。他会换掉。我们会说co CO，但然后他会说SARS疫苗。然后他就离开了，我当时就想，我的意思是，肯定有上百万种不同的有有上千种SARS和CO的变种。
And so why did he keep switching it? Why didn't he just say the COVID 19 vaccine? Why did he switch it to SARS? And so that that clicked and I was it just made me think maybe this isn't factual and I don't want to you know I've done speculative narrative interviews lots of them but I once again we were talking earlier you know we have an audiences of millions and millions and millions of people and I don't want to put something out that's not factual and then have somebody make an important medical decision based on Yeah.
那他为什么一直换着说？他为什么不直接说COVID 19疫苗？他为什么把它改成SARS？所以那一点击，我就它只是让我想，也许这不是事实性的，我不想，你知道，我做过推测性的叙事性采访，很多次但再一次，我们之前在聊，你知道我们有数百万数百万又数百万的观众我不想发布不属实的东西然后让某人做出重要的医疗决定基于，是的。
based on and I just didn't want to gamble that. So I never I never released the episode and I'd talked to lots of doctors and you it was a it was a charged subject, you know, at the time and so I didn't like the vax.
基于这一点，我只是不想拿这个去赌。所以我从来没有，我从来没有发布过那一集而且我跟很多医生谈过而这是一个，这是一个敏感的话题，你知道，在当时，所以我不喜欢疫苗。
I took it but I regret it but but whatever. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter. I didn't want anybody making that type of a I know that people trust me. I I couldn't live with myself if I found out that guy was totally full of feeding feeding a narrative for whatever.
我打了，但我后悔了，但，但无所谓了。你明白我的意思吗？没关系。我不希望任何人做出那种我知道的人们信任我。我 我无法原谅自己，如果我得知那家伙完全是在胡编乱造为了某种目的编造说法。
And then you got people, you know, either taking it or not taking it based off what he said. So I never aired that. You know, I've had another guy I had I was interested in a lot of the stuff going on in the World Economic Forum and and I had this guy that I thought was an expert on the World Economic Forum come on and he couldn't even tell me what it was.
然后人们就会，你知道，要么信要么不信就凭他说的话。所以我从没播出过那段。你知道，我遇到过另一个人，我当时对很多事情都很感兴趣世界经济论坛上发生的事情而且我请来了一个我以为对世界经济论坛很了解的人世界经济论坛，结果他连告诉我都做不到它到底是什么。
I was like, "Well, what is it? Is it a business? Is it a nonpr What is it?" He couldn't even tell me. And then he would just start talking about all this conspiracy and I'm like, "Look, if you can't even tell me what it is, like you really have no business being here."
我当时就想，“好吧，它是什么？它是一个商业活动吗？它是不是一个非……它是什么？"他甚至连这都告诉不了我。然后他就会开始讲所有这些阴谋论然后我说，"你看，如果你连它是什么都说不出来，那你真的没资格待在这里。"
So, let's just end the interview right now. And recently, I had one where this woman on supposedly she worked for the agency. Then when I started talking about agency stuff, of course, everything's classified.
所以，我们现在就结束这次采访吧。最近，我遇到一个案例，这个女人据说她工作为那个机构。然后当我开始谈论机构的事情时，当然，一切都是机密。
So, we hide behind the classification system. And the only thing she wanted to talk about was like the polygraph. And I'm like, for the polygraph? Who gives a about the polygraph? Like, everybody in there has to take a polygraph.
所以，我们躲在保密制度的后面。而她唯一想谈的就是测谎仪。我就想，测谎仪？谁他妈在乎测谎仪啊？里面每个人都必须接受测谎。
Why are we talking about the Is this like something that you researched really hard on what a polygraph's like? So to make yourself sound legitimate because you're not talking about anything else and you know something that may be classified that they don't want out is how to defeat a polygraph.
我们为什么要谈这个？这像是某种你花了很大功夫研究的东西吗？测谎是什么样的？好让自己听起来有说服力因为你没别的东西可谈而且你知道一些可能属于机密的事他们不想泄露出去，就是如何破解测谎。
So and that was within the past couple months and you know we we ended that one pretty quickly and I think she knew exactly this. So, we'll never release that one. But I don't care.
所以那是在过去几个月内你知道我们很快就结束了那一段我觉得她完全知道这一点。所以，我们永远不会发布那一个。但我不在乎。
You know what I mean? I just I don't want to knowingly put things that are out there. I mean, it's going to happen. We're going to make mistakes. I've made mistakes. But, you know, knowingly, just for views, nah, I have no interest in that.
你明白我的意思吗？我只是不想明知故犯地把那些东西放出去。我的意思是，这迟早会发生。我们会犯错的。我也犯过错。但是，你知道，明知故犯，只是为了流量，不，我对此毫无兴趣。
It used to be that working for yourself was a massive, massive risk. But that world has completely changed. And arguably, in some situations, it can be more risky working for someone else.
过去，为自己工作曾是一个巨大的，巨大的风险。但那个世界已经完全改变了。可以说，在某些情况下，为别人工作反而风险更大。
If you've got a business idea that you can't stop thinking about, I think you owe it to yourself to at least try and make it happen. And that is where our show sponsor Shopify comes in.
如果你有一个商业想法让你念念不忘，我觉得你应该给自己一个机会至少尝试去实现它。而这正是我们节目的赞助商Shopify的用武之地。
Their smart platform includes everything you need to start selling and get that idea off the ground. They have this drag and drop editor. They have this AI sidekick and helps you. They have analytics and you don't need to be an expert to get going.
他们智能的平台包含了你开始销售所需的一切并让那个想法得以实现。他们有这种拖放式编辑器。他们有这个AI助手来帮助你。他们有分析功能而且你不需要成为专家就能上手。
Shopify's best-in-class checkout makes sure that you're getting paid from day one. It helps more of your customers finish their purchase because their checkout is so efficient, and it saves their info for next time.
Shopify一流的结账功能确保您从第一天起就能获得收入。它能帮助更多客户完成购买因为他们的结账流程非常高效，并且会保存他们的信息以备下次使用。
Personalized checkouts like that equal more conversion, equal a faster growing business. Nothing kills that early enthusiasm you have for a new idea than that first initial step to get going difficult, complicated, or expensive.
这样的个性化结账意味着更高的转化率，意味着业务增长更快。没有什么比这更能扼杀你对新想法的早期热情了就是迈出第一步时遇到的困难、复杂或昂贵。
And you need to save as much time and money so that you can focus all of it on growing your actual business. And that's what Shopify gives you. If you're finally ready for your business idea to start, head over to shopify.com/bartlet and you can start your free trial right now.
你需要尽可能节省时间和金钱这样你才能把全部精力集中在发展你真正的业务上。而这正是Shopify为你提供的。如果你终于准备好开始你的商业想法，请访问shopify.com/bartlet现在就可以开始你的免费试用。
I've seen a lot online again about how to find your flow. That feeling when everything just clicks, distractions disappear, and suddenly you're operating at your very, very best. But most of us treat flow like it's something that just happens randomly.
我在网上又看到很多关于如何找到心流的内容。那种一切豁然开朗的感觉，干扰消失，突然间你发挥出了你最最出色的状态。但我们大多数人把心流当作一种随机发生的事情。
But when you're operating at the highest level, you can't just leave that to chance, or at least you don't want to. Bad days are expensive, and you need to be able to zone in on demand.
但当你在最高水平运作时，你不能只靠运气，或者至少你不想这样。糟糕的日子代价高昂，你需要能够随时进入专注状态。
That's the idea behind our sponsor, Ketone IQ, a company I've invested in and become a co-owner of because I've seen for myself the profound impact it has on me as a podcaster. Sometimes I'm here with an investor or a business person or a philosopher or someone talking about menopause, whatever it might be.
这就是我们赞助商背后的理念，Ketone IQ，一家我投资并成为共同拥有者的公司因为我亲眼见证了它对我作为播客产生的深远影响。有时我在这里与投资者或商人或哲学家或谈论更年期的人交流，无论是什么话题。
I need my brain to be sharp. Keto IQ is a premium focus fuel for your brain and delivers sustained mental clarity and focus so you can be more intentional about creating the conditions for focused work.
我需要我的大脑保持敏锐。Keto IQ 是一款为大脑提供的高级专注燃料带来持续的精神清晰和专注力，让你能更有意识地创造有利条件以实现专注工作。
And it's no longer just chance because your best work shouldn't have to depend on a lucky moment. So, go to ketone.com/stephven for 30% off or you can head to CVS and get your first shot for free.
这不再只是碰运气因为你最好的工作不应该依赖于幸运的时刻。所以，前往 ketone.com/stephven 享受 30% 折扣或者你可以去 CVS 免费获得你的第一剂。
That's right. Ketone IQ is now available at CVS locations nationwide. And then once you did your stint through the sort of security a of your life and through the after your CIA contracting role at 34, you moved to Medigene, Colombia and spent two years with taking out drinking alcohol.
没错。Ketone IQ现已在全美CVS门店发售。然后，在你完成了你的那段经历之后经历了人生中的那段安保工作并且在34岁结束你在CIA的合同工作后，你搬到了Medigene，哥伦比亚，并花了两年时间与戒酒相关。
Yeah, I started in Cardahana and ultimately just decided I'm going to camp out in Medigene. Did you get involved in the the drug dealing networks while you were there? Yes, I did. How do you categorize this season of your life in Colombia?
是的，我是在卡尔达哈纳开始的最终我决定我要在梅迪基因扎营。你在那里的时候有没有卷入毒品交易网络？是的，我有。是的，我参与了。你如何定义你在哥伦比亚的这段人生阶段？
Because before then you, you know, you're a SEAL, you're doing contracting work with the CIA, and then it appears that in this season of your life, when I look at it from sort of a bird's eye view, that it represents instability.
因为在那之前你，你知道，你是一名海豹突击队员，你在为中情局做合同工作，然后看起来在你人生的这个阶段，当我从一种鸟瞰的角度来看它时，它代表着不稳定。
I think what it represents is, you know, just talked about addiction to adrenaline. Yeah. And I wasn't getting that adrenaline anywhere. And, you know, I would be in the States and it was boring to me.
我认为它所代表的是，你知道，刚才谈到的对肾上腺素的沉迷。是的。而且我在其他地方都找不到那种肾上腺素飙升的感觉。而且，你知道，我在美国的时候，觉得那里对我来说很无聊。
You know, it was it was it was boring going to the bar and that life just it had no appeal to me. It was boring. And then on top of that, I was tired of listening to everyday average Americans talk about the war, give their opinions on what we should be doing when none of them have done anything.
你知道，去酒吧很无聊那种生活对我毫无吸引力。很无聊。更糟糕的是，我厌倦了听那些普通的美国人谈论战争，对我们该怎么做发表意见而他们自己什么都没做过。
It just didn't sit well with me. So that's why, you know, when I said I went down to I I didn't want to hear English. I didn't want to hear people asking me for my opinions. I didn't want to hear their opinions.
我就是觉得不太对劲。所以这就是为什么，你知道，当我说我去了我不想听到英语。我不想听到别人问我的意见。我不想听他们的意见。
I don't think their opinions mattered. I didn't think that at the time anyways. And so I went down there and it became like a game to me. It wasn't the dealing. I never really dealed dealt.
我不觉得他们的意见重要。反正当时我不这么认为。于是我就去了那里，这对我来说变成了一场游戏。不是交易。我从来没有真正交易过。
It was more setting up the network that gave me the rush and infiltrating networks and figuring out who the players are and all that and being able to insert myself into the middle of all of that.
更多的是建立网络让我感到兴奋的是渗透网络并弄清楚参与者是谁以及所有这些并且能够将自己插入到这一切的中间。
You know, in retrospect, it it was probably the most dangerous thing I'd ever done. I didn't care. you know, I just I I didn't really have any value for my own life. I wouldn't say I was suicidal at the time, but I just I was in it for for the thrill.
你知道，回想起来，这这大概是我做过的最危险的事情。我不在乎。你知道，我只是，我，我其实并不觉得自己的生命有什么价值。我不会说当时我有自杀倾向，但我只是，我只是为了那种刺激感。
And to me, there was nothing else that was going to give me a thrill, a bigger thrill than that. And I figured if if this gets boring, then I'll probably just die down here. I'll probably just die down here.
而对我来说，没有什么别的东西能给我那种刺激感，比那更强烈的刺激感。我想如果这变得无聊，那我大概就会死在这里了。我大概就会死在这里了。
I mean, it sounds like you came pretty close to getting in significant trouble. At one point, your apartment was bugged by the police. Yep. Yep. I I had come home and I was probably I did I did a lot of a lot of drugs down there, a lot of cocaine.
我是说，听起来你差点就惹上大麻烦了。有一次，你的公寓被警方装了窃听器。是的。是的。我回到家，我可能我在那里吸了很多很多毒品，很多可卡因。
And I don't know, I was on three, four, maybe a five day bender. And there was this bridge down there that was called in in this area called Bario Antio. I don't know what it's like now, but back then you couldn't you couldn't get in there.
我不知道，我当时连续狂欢了三四天，也许五天。那里有一座桥在一个叫巴里奥安蒂奥的地区。我不知道现在是什么样子，但那时候你根本进不去。
You couldn't get a taxi to drive you in there. You couldn't get in there without going through several police checkpoints. but that's where the cheapest and best coke was and that's where all the the players are.
你叫不到出租车载你进去。你进不去那里除非经过好几个警察检查站。但那里有最便宜也最好的可卡因而且所有的玩家都在那里。
It's all it's all coming out of that specific neighborhood. And I used to go in there for a thrill and and like go up the chain, go up the dealer chain, find whose boss is whose boss is whose boss.
这一切都来自那个特定的街区。我以前常去那里找刺激然后就像顺着链条往上走，顺着毒贩链条往上走，找出谁的老大是谁的老大是谁的老大。
Anyways, I went down there with a bunch of girls and we went to this bridge called the Poente de los Locos and it was all these it was like a homeless camp and of just insane people and I went down there with a huge stack of cash and just threw the money up in the air cuz I wanted to see what would happen.
不管怎样，我和一群女孩去了那里我们去了这座叫疯人桥的桥那里全是，就像个流浪汉营地还有一群疯子我带着一大叠现金去了那里，直接把钱往空中一撒因为我想看看会发生什么。
Of course, they all got up and it was like a mad dash and we almost didn't get out of there cuz they had surrounded and there was hundreds of people. And so we we we wound up getting out of there and in a car and we got back to my building where I was staying at my penthouse.
当然，他们都站了起来，简直就像疯了一样狂奔我们差点没能离开那里，因为他们已经包围了而且有数百人。所以我们最终逃了出来上了一辆车，回到了我住的大楼我当时住在我的顶层公寓。
And one thing I always did was I always took care of the door man at the building. you know, all the security guys that the the door man, they control who comes in and out, they can inform you if people are hanging around that, you know, maybe shouldn't be, people are looking for me.
而我一直坚持做的一件事就是我总是会打点门卫在那栋大楼里。你知道，所有保安人员，那个门卫，他们控制着谁进谁出，如果有人在外面徘徊，他们可以通知你，你知道，也许不该在那里的人，有人在找我。
And so I built that was part of my network, you know, was taking care of them. And so I anything I got, if I got Coke, they got Coke. If I got booze, they got booze. If I went clothes shopping, they got clothes.
所以我建立了那个，那是我网络的一部分，你知道，就是在照顾他们。所以我有任何东西，如果我拿到可乐，他们也有可乐。如果我有酒，他们就有酒。如果我去买衣服，他们就有衣服。
If I got groceries, they got groceries. They always got tipped. They, you know, when I was leaving, I would give them a bunch of my clothes. like I just always took care of those guys.
如果我买食品杂货，他们就有食品杂货。他们总是能拿到小费。他们，你知道，当我离开的时候，我会给他们一堆我的衣服。就像我一直都在照顾那些家伙。
And I came back and this guy, his name was Freddy, and he said that the police were after me. One thing being a foreigner in Colombia, it's almost like a sin for them not to try to take advantage of you.
我回来后，这个家伙，他叫弗雷迪，他说警察在追捕我。作为外国人在哥伦比亚，对他们来说几乎像是一种罪过，不去试图占你的便宜。
And I had built a lot of trust with with Freddy. He was my favorite guy. And I was pissed. And I started yelling at him like, "Man, I I give you like all kinds of stuff. Like, why would you lie to me to try to get more out of me?
而我已经和弗雷迪建立了很多信任。他是我最喜欢的人。我很生气。我开始对他大喊，就像，“老兄，我，我给了你各种各样的东西。就像，你为什么要对我撒谎，想从我这里得到更多？
I I I always take care of you." And he said, "I'm not doing that." He said, "They came by and they wanted they wanted copies of your passport. They wanted to know where you came from, who you are, who you work with, all these things."
我 我 我一直都在照顾你。”然后他说，“我没有那么做。”他说，“他们来过，他们想要他们想要你护照的复印件。他们想知道你从哪里来，你是谁，你和谁一起工作，所有这些事情。”
And I was I just thought he was full of And he said, "Look," he said, "they told me that they have pictures of you throwing money up at a bridge in Bario, Antioquia, and that was we had just come from there."
而我当时只是觉得他满口胡言。他说，“看，”他说，“他们告诉我，他们有你的照片在巴里奥的一座桥上撒钱，安蒂奥基亚，而我们刚刚从那里来。”
And so I was like, "Oh he is not lying." And what he was telling me was that they had supposedly planted a bug in the light fixture outside of my door and that they had set up a observation point in a building across from me.
于是我想，“哦，他没有撒谎。”他告诉我的是他们据称在我的门外灯具里安装了窃听器并且在我对面的一栋楼里设立了一个观察点。
And so I went up and scrubbed myself of everything.
于是我上去把自己的一切都清理干净。
kind of scanned around to see if I could pick up, you know, who was who was looking at me, who was watching. I'm pretty sure I saw it and got rid of everything. Got rid of all the coke.
四处扫视了一下，看看我能不能发现，你知道，谁在谁在看着我，谁在监视。我很确定我看到了，并且把所有东西都处理掉了。把所有可卡因都处理掉了。
Got rid of everything. And then I did a SDR to a couple of different internet cafes. An SDR. An SDR. That's a surveillance detection route. Okay. and it's it's it's it's a route that you develop to to figure out if you're being followed or not.
把所有东西都处理掉了。然后我对几家不同的网吧进行了SDR。一次SDR。一次SDR。那是一条反监视路线。好的。它是一条你设计出来的路线，用来弄清楚你是否被跟踪了。
So, I did that. Didn't pick anything up. Bought a couple of different tickets to different places and was out of there within 12 hours, never to go back. And when you got back to the United States, presumably, had you changed?
于是，我那样做了。什么也没发现。买了几张去不同地方的车票12小时内就离开了那里，再也没有回去过。当你回到美国时，想必，你变了吗？
Was that was that enough of a close call for you to give up the the cocaine and the habits that you had at the time? I tried I I had cleaned it up a lot. I had cleaned it up a lot, but I went I started getting bored and so I did a couple of trips a trip or two maybe to Panama.
那次经历对你来说算不算足够惊险让你放弃那些可卡因和你当时的那些习惯？我试过，我已经改掉了很多。我已经清理了很多，但我开始感到无聊所以我去了几次，也许一两次巴拿马。
Panama was a lot tamer than Colombia, but it's just as easy to get in the middle of it. And then I did one to Costa Rica. And then I I can't remember exactly how many. I had gone a lot of different places.
巴拿马比哥伦比亚温和得多，但同样容易陷入其中。然后我又去了哥斯达黎加一次。然后我，我记不清具体有多少了。我去过很多不同的地方。
I went to Honduras. I went to San Pedro Sula because it was it was literally the do most dangerous place on the planet at the time. So I wanted to go there and feed my adrenaline. I had toned it down a lot, but but I didn't clean it up 100%.
我去了洪都拉斯。我去了圣佩德罗苏拉因为那里 literally 是当时地球上最危险的地方。所以我想去那里满足我的肾上腺素。我已经收敛了很多，但我没有百分之百地戒掉。
What was the turning point for you in that season of your life? There were a lot of turning points. One turning point that made me clean it up quite a bit was my best friend was was leaving contracting and and he had a horrible addiction to opiates.
在你人生的那个阶段，转折点是什么？有很多转折点。其中一个让我彻底改变的转折点是我最好的朋友要离开承包行业，而且他对阿片类药物有着可怕的毒瘾。
And so he became my purpose. He became my purpose. I wanted to help clean him up. And so in order to clean him up, I had to clean myself up. And I think we made a lot of headway. Ultimately he did succumb to his addiction years later.
于是他成了我的目标。他成了我的目标。我想帮忙把他清理干净。所以为了让他戒掉毒瘾，我必须先让自己戒毒。我认为我们取得了很大的进展。最终，多年后他还是没能战胜自己的毒瘾。
But that was a turning point. And in in the middle of that journey, I met this I had started my therapy myself. What was the catalyst for you to go to therapy? I just knew I I needed something and I had to set an example for my friend like I'm doing it so you should do it too.
但那是一个转折点。在那段旅程的中途，我遇到了这个——我自己开始了治疗。是什么促使你去接受治疗？我就知道我需要一些东西，而且我得为我的朋友树立榜样，就像我在做，所以你也应该做。
There was this call on Mother's Day as well which I've heard you talk about. That was in Colombia. That was it while you were in Colia. That was while I was in Colombia. What was that phone call?
母亲节那天也有一次通话我听说你谈起过。那是在哥伦比亚。那就是你在科利亚时的事。那是我在哥伦比亚时的事。那通电话是怎么回事？
That was a I always thought I was oding down there. like my ankles would swell up, you know, from lack of blood circulation and that would freak me out and lots of, you know, things.
那是一种我一直以为我在下面腐烂的感觉。就像我的脚踝会肿起来，你知道，因为血液循环不畅那会让我吓坏了还有很多，你知道，各种事情。
And and I remember my friend told me early on, he said, "You don't you don't have to worry about Odian on Coke until things start to slow down. If you're on speed and then everything seems slow, that's when you're riding the edge.
而且而且我记得我的朋友早期告诉我，他说，“你不你不必担心在可卡因上腐烂直到事情开始慢下来。如果你在高速运转，然后一切似乎都变慢了，那就是你正在边缘飞驰的时候。
And so that started happening. I realized it was Mother's Day once and I I called my my mom in the middle of that cuz I thought it was going to be my last day alive. And so that's yeah, that's that that was a realization point.
于是这开始发生了。我意识到有一天是母亲节然后我我给我妈妈打了电话，就在那期间，因为我觉得那会是我活着的最后一天。所以那就是，对，那就是一个顿悟点。
And then you found this therapist. And then I found this therapist. Was that a challenge to go to a therapist? You know, there's there's a lot of stigma associated to with going to therapy, especially at that time.
然后你找到了这位治疗师。然后我找到了这位治疗师。那是在挑战我去看心理医生吗？你知道，去看心理治疗有很多污名，尤其是在那个时候。
Yeah, I mean, it was definitely a blow to my ego, but at the same time, you know, I didn't really have any friends. Most of my friends were still operational at the time, and I didn't have any friends where I lived in Florida.
是的，我是说，这绝对是对我自尊心的一次打击，但与此同时，你知道，我其实没有任何朋友。当时我的大多数朋友还在运作中，而我在佛罗里达住的地方没有任何朋友。
And so, nobody really knew me, and I didn't have anything else to do. I was like, "What the hell?" You know, I might as well try this. And it did help. It helped a lot. How did it help?
所以，没有人真正了解我，而且我没有其他事情可做。我当时想，“管他呢？”你知道，我不妨试试这个。它确实有帮助。它帮了很大忙。它有什么帮助？
You know, I think it's amazing how many of your own problems you'll work out yourself in your head just by telling somebody who has a, you know, seemingly unbiased opinion, you know, just with a couple of a couple of questions.
你知道，我觉得这很神奇你自己有多少问题你会在脑子里自己解决仅仅通过告诉一个拥有，你知道，看似不带偏见意见的人，你知道，仅仅通过几个几个问题。
Kind of like how both you and I interview. you don't say much and people just spill it. Yeah. And that you can see them working things out in their head as they go along. For me, that's what therapy was.
有点像你和我采访的方式。你不多说什么，人们就自己全说出来了。是的。而且你能看到他们在脑海里理清思路一边进行着。对我来说，这就是治疗的意义。
And it's also somebody that can hold you accountable, you know, for for different things. And around that time, you did I began treatment, which I'm somewhat familiar with just after that time because I worked in psychedelics for a couple of years.
而且这也是一个能让你负责任的人，你知道，对于不同的事情。大约在那段时间，你确实我开始接受治疗，我对这个有点熟悉，就在那之后不久因为我从事迷幻药相关工作几年了。
Well, a year while you worked with psychedelics. I worked in psychedelics in the industry. okay. And I just when I was between leaving my first company and really starting this podcast, I did a year in working in a psychedelics Interesting.
嗯，一年，在你从事迷幻药工作的时候。我在迷幻药行业工作过。好吧。就在我离开第一家公司真正开始这个播客之间，我在迷幻药领域工作了一年，有意思。
That was focused on mental health. So Ibegan was one of the therapies that I came across and studied and saw the huge efficacy around addiction. But I've actually never met anybody that did IEN.
那是关于心理健康的。所以Ibegan是我接触到的并研究过的疗法之一并看到了它在成瘾方面的巨大疗效。但事实上我从未遇到过任何做过IEN的人。
But I remember at the time when I was working in psychedelics, they they told me that there was this thing called Iberane you could take. It was quite a intense treatment, quite a long treatment.
但我记得当时我在从事迷幻药研究时，他们告诉我有一种叫做伊博格碱的东西你可以服用。这是一种相当强烈的治疗，相当漫长的治疗。
But there are several cases where people do one dose of ibeane in a therapeutic setting and their addiction is cured. That's what I was told and I was like this is crazy. And you you you did I gain right?
但在有些案例中，人们在治疗环境中服用一剂伊博格碱，他们的成瘾就被治愈了。这就是我被告知的，我当时觉得这太疯狂了。然后你你你，我是不是增重了，对吧？
I did I gain done twice now. wow. And yeah the first time was amazing. I went down there actually that was actually after I'd started the podcast. I have a feeling we're very similar.
我已经增重两次了。哇。而且是的，第一次真的很棒。我实际上去了那里，那实际上是在我开始做播客之后。我感觉我们非常相似。
you probably wrap your entire life up into what you're doing. And we were having I had a a six-month-old at the time, my son. And I wasn't present with him because my mind was always in business.
你可能把你的整个生活都倾注在你所做的事情上。当时我有一个六个月大的孩子，我儿子。而我没有陪伴在他身边因为我的心思总是放在生意上。
It's just all I thought about was business, business, business, the podcast, business. I needed something to just to slow my mind, you know, so that I could be in the moment and actually be present with my with my wife and with my son.
我满脑子想的都是生意，生意，生意，播客，生意。我需要一些东西来让我的思绪慢下来，你知道，这样我才能活在当下真正地陪伴我的妻子和我的儿子。
You know, at the time I had kicked I kicked a lot of things. I wasn't drinking hard alcohol anymore. I I was I mean, I was still on there was no coke for a long time before that, but there was still some pharmaceutical meds that I would dabble in sleeping meds, but I went down there to be in the moment.
你知道，那时候我踢过——我踢过很多东西。我不再喝烈酒了。我——我是说，我还在——在那之前很久就没有可卡因了，但还有一些药物，我会偶尔碰一些安眠药，但我下去那里是为了活在当下。
That was it. like like help me compartmentalize or manage business stress because so many opportunities are coming and if you you know the deal you feel it's like do I need to do all these opportunities are these all opportunities all good for whatever am I a fool if I turn this down and I went down there for that and when I came out of it had no interest in drinking again I quit all the sleep medications I had quit the aderall and it was effortless it was effortless and I was able to be present with my wife and son.
就这样。就像 就像 帮我区分归类或者管理商业压力因为太多机会正在涌来如果你 你懂那种感觉 就像 我需要全都做吗这些机会 这些都是机会吗不管怎样都是好事吗如果我拒绝这个 我是不是大聪明 而我下去那里是为了那个 当我从中走出来时再也没有兴趣喝酒了我戒掉了所有的安眠药 我戒掉了阿德拉而且毫不费力，毫不费力我能够陪伴在妻子和儿子身边。
And where do you find yourself today as it relates to alcohol, the substances we've talked about, and your mental health? I've never been better. You know, I haven't had a drop in over 4 years.
如今在酒精方面，你觉得自己处于什么状态，还有我们谈到的那些物质，以及你的心理健康？我从未感觉这么好过。你知道，我已经四年多没沾过一滴酒了。
I don't take sleeping medications. I don't take Adderall. I don't I have I actually have no vices. None. And then I went to do it again and the next one didn't didn't work out so well for me.
我不吃安眠药。我不吃阿得拉。我不，我没有，我其实没有任何恶习。没有。然后我又去做了一次，下一个却没有成功对我来说没那么顺利。
The next I gain journey. Was this recently? This was about I guess about 3 months ago now. And this is the one where I saw on your show you said you you think you visited Yeah. Yes, that would be the one.
接下来我获得旅程。这是最近发生的吗？这大概是我想想，大约3个月前了。这就是我在你的节目上看到的那个你说你认为你去过 是的。是的，就是那个。
So, for anyone that doesn't know what Iberane is and what the journey is like, is it a drink that you take and then it's sort of like a 12-hour? For me, it was a pill. It was a pill.
那么，对于任何不知道Iberane是什么以及这段旅程是什么样的，它是一种你喝下去的饮料，然后大概持续12小时吗？对我来说，它是一颗药丸。它是一颗药丸。
It's from a group in I think Gabone, Africa. Yeah. They they they say it's the most powerful psychedelic you can do. And I believe it that and and and then at this particular place, you do 5 MAO DMT a day after your I gain journey.
它来自我想是非洲加蓬的一个组织。是的。他们他们他们说这是最强大的迷幻剂你可以做的。我相信这一点，然后然后然后在这个特定的地方，你在你的自我成长之旅后每天服用5次MAO DMT。
And it's some extremely powerful stuff. Has it changed you that second? It's changed a lot of things. I saw you had Dr. Huber been on. Yeah. You know, the other day he was talking about his faith and all that stuff and and I'm on my faith journey as well.
而且这是非常强大的东西。那第二秒它改变你了吗？它改变了很多事情。我看到你请了Huber医生上节目。是的。你知道，前几天他在谈论他的信仰还有那些东西，而且我也在经历我的信仰之旅。
And but you know, one thing is when it comes to psychedelics is I've done Ibis Gain twice. I've done psilocybin a handful of times. I've done 5 MO a handful of times. And I got so much out of the first one and I had a very healthy respect.
而且但你知道，有一件事是，当谈到迷幻药时是我做过两次死藤水。我做过几次裸盖菇素。我做过几次5-甲氧基二甲基色胺。我从第一次中学到了很多而且我非常敬畏。
You know, I really prepare for them. And then I forced myself to kind of get looser with it. because I I saw all these other people doing it and and I would get these answers to things, you know, really tough business decisions or or something that, you know, might seem really beneficial to you, but you don't understand why it's happening or you think there you think there might be something else behind it.
你知道，我真的很认真准备。然后我强迫自己放松一些。因为我看到其他所有人都在这么做，而我得到了这些问题的答案，你知道，真正艰难的商业决策或者或者某些，你知道，可能看起来对你非常有利，但你不明白为什么会发生或者你认为你认为背后可能还有其他东西。
You know, I would do maybe a psilocybin journey and think on that and and it would be like everything became clear like all of it. You could see what the motivations are behind the person that wants to do business with you.
你知道，我可能会进行一次裸盖菇素之旅然后思考那件事，然后它会就像一切都变得清晰了就像所有的一切。你能看清那个人背后的动机那个想和你做生意的人。
You could see the thing over here that's going to happen if you if you take that that step and and commit or maybe you see what happens if you don't. It would be like problem solved, you know, and this has happened multiple times and not just with business, with family, with relationships, with with friends.
你能看到这边将要发生的事情如果你，如果你迈出那一步，然后然后承诺，或者也许你会看到会发生什么如果你不那样做。那就像是问题解决了，你知道，这种情况发生过很多次而且不仅是在生意上，在家庭中，在感情中，在和朋友们之间。
You would be able to piece together these super complex problems and and and and it would make sense and I believe it was real. But also at the same time, I believe that, and I always have, I believe that you are potentially opening yourself up to a spiritual realm that maybe we should not have access to.
你能够拼凑出这些极其复杂的问题而且而且而且而且这会说得通而且我相信那是真实的。但与此同时，我相信，而且我一直都相信，我相信你可能会让自己敞开心扉，通往一个灵性领域，也许我们本不该接触的。
And that's something that I always took very seriously. Even when I did loosen up, I would always pray before it. And as my journey through Christianity became stronger and stronger, I would take it more and more seriously.
这是我始终非常认真对待的事情。即使在我放松的时候，我也会事先祈祷。随着我对基督教的探索越来越深入，我会越来越认真地对待它。
you know, the praying before and during
你知道，在之前和期间的祈祷
which led up to this last one, which was, "Yeah, I thought I think I saw hell. I know I did." You know, you saw hell. Give me some context on how how one would know that was hell and and if you can at all.
最终导致了最后一次，那就是，“是的，我想我觉得我看到了地狱。我知道我看到了。”你知道，你看到了地狱。给我一些背景，关于一个人怎么会知道那是地狱，如果可以的话。
I know it's difficult to sort of say these things in human words, but like what was it? It was total emptiness. When I say I saw, I didn't see fire. I didn't see any of that. And and where I really felt it was in the five MAO experience.
我知道用人类语言说这些事情有点难我知道用人类语言说这些事情有点难，但就像那是什么感觉？那是彻底的空虚。当我说我看到时，我没有看到火。那些我都没看到。而我真正感受到它是在五次毛体验中。
And there was nothing. It the most amount of fear that I had ever felt in my life. It was the most amount of anxiety I'd ever felt in my life. There was no God. There was no Christ.
然后什么都没有了。那是我一生中感受过的最强烈的恐惧。那是我一生中感受过的最强烈的焦虑。没有上帝。没有基督。
There was and it felt like eternity and this went on for an hour and a halfish. It felt like I was going through the most intense exorcism you could ever imagine. That's what it felt like.
曾经有，感觉像是永恒这持续了大约一个半小时。感觉就像我正在经历你能想象到的最激烈的驱魔。就是那种感觉。
And it felt like things were trying to maybe leave. Maybe not trying, maybe I was trying to get these things out and they wouldn't leave. But it felt like abandonment. It it it it's it's the most horrific feeling you could ever even imagine.
感觉就像有什么东西试图离开。也许没有尝试，也许我试图把这些东西说出来但它们就是不肯离开。但那种感觉像是被抛弃。那那那那那那是是是是最可怕的感觉你根本无法想象。
And it was more real than anything I've experienced in in in real What could you see in this specific experience? I couldn't see anything. I mean, my body was contorted. It was doing things that the human body shouldn't do.
它比任何东西都更真实我在现实中经历过的你在这个特定的体验中能看到什么？我什么都看不见。我是说，我的身体扭曲了。它正在做人体不该做的事。
There was a a friend of mine with me. Told him I didn't want him to come down when I did it. And I talked I didn't want to talk to anybody for weeks after this except my wife, a guy that is a spiritual mentor of mine and some priests.
有一个我的朋友和我在一起。我告诉他我做的时候不想让他下来。我当时说过，我不想和任何人说话在这之后的几周里除了我妻子，一个我的精神导师，还有几位神父。
And but I I so I called him several weeks. He kept checking on me and he said, "Man," he goes, "I know you told me not to go down there, but he goes, "When I heard you down there," he he said, "I didn't know if you were hurting people.
但是，我，所以我几周后给他打了电话。他一直来看我的情况，他说，“老兄，”他说，“我知道你告诉过我不要下去那里，但他说，“当我听到你在下面的时候，”他他说，“我不知道你是不是在伤害别人。
I didn't know what I didn't." He's like, "I had I just felt like I had to check." And he goes, "I peered around the the the stairwell." He just said, "I've I've I've never seen a human body doing what you were doing."
我不知道我不知道什么。”他说：“我，我只是觉得我必须去查看一下。”然后他说：“我往楼梯井的四周看了看。”他只是说，“我，我，我从未见过人体做出你当时那样的动作。”
And this is a Mars GWAD veteran who has seen it all in the Marine Corps. I've seen horrific It was a It was a really bad experience. What do you think it was? Because some, you know, people say you had a psychedelic experience, but you think it was something more than just a psychedelic hallucination, per se.
而这是一位见过一切的马尔斯GWAD老兵在海军陆战队里。我见过可怕的，那是一次，那是一次非常糟糕的经历。你觉得那是什么？因为有些人，你知道，人们说你有过一次迷幻体验，但你认为那不仅仅是一次迷幻幻觉，从某种意义上说。
Yeah, I think it's what I told you. I think that when you dabble in there can be benefits. And I also think that there are you are opening yourself up to a realm that we were never supposed to have access to spiritually.
是的，我想这就是我告诉你的。我认为当你涉足其中时，可能会有好处。而且我还认为存在着你正在向一个我们本不该在精神上触及的领域敞开自己。
And I think that you are naked in a world that you or I or nobody living today truly understands. And with that comes I mean you're just you're at a vulnerable point that things can can access you that and you can access them.
我觉得你赤裸地身处一个你、我或任何在世之人都无法真正理解的世界。随之而来的是 我是说 你只是你正处于一个脆弱的境地某些东西可以触及你 而你也可以触及它们。
And from what I saw from watching your videos over the last couple of weeks, your life has been different ever since. Mhm. It's been different. All right. It's been dark.
从过去几周我看你的视频所观察到的情况来看，你的生活从此就变得不一样了。嗯。确实不一样了。好吧。天已经黑了。
It gets better. It's been a lot of supernatural things. Things that I just I mean, I can't even believe I'm saying I I talk about some of this stuff, but it's it is real. And I don't really care what anybody thinks about me, but it has been supernatural things that have happened.
会好起来的。发生了很多超自然的事情。那些事情，我只是，我是说，我简直不敢相信我会说，我，我会谈论其中一些事情，但那是，那是真实的。我真的不在乎别人怎么看我，但确实发生了超自然的事情。
It has been nightmares. It has been very odd coincidences, synchronicities, lots of that kind of stuff. And you know what it's all done, it is it has drawn me much much much closer to Christ.
一直是噩梦。一直是非常奇怪的巧合，同步性，很多这类东西。你知道这一切都做了什么，它让我与基督更加、更加、更加亲近。
I heard you describe that some supernatural things that were going on in your physical environment, but you know, I think you one of the videos I was watching maybe a week ago, you said that things were like falling off the walls in your house.
我听你描述过一些超自然的事情发生在你的物理环境中，但你知道，我想你，我大概一周前看的一个视频，你说事情就像你房子里的东西从墙上掉下来。
Not in my house. Not in your house, in other places. Your use of the word dark is really fascinating to me. Is the darkness because of the nightmares or is it because of your mental state or is it something else?
不是在我家。不是在你家，是在别的地方。你对黑暗这个词的使用真的让我很着迷。黑暗是因为噩梦还是因为你的精神状态还是别的什么？
The darkness is because of all of it together. So, I'll I'll give you a I don't want to talk too long on this to be honest with you, but I'll give you the example of the picture frames coming off the wall.
黑暗是因为所有这些加在一起。所以，我会给你一个老实说，我不想在这上面讲太久，但我会给你举个例子就是画框从墙上掉下来的例子。
So, I was in Maine. I did a podcast up there and I was at my in-laws house and I had been put on this I mean, it's no secret. I I had done some exorcisms now with two different priests who've also been spiritual mentors of mine.
所以，我当时在缅因州。我在那里录了一个播客，我住在我岳父母家而我被安排上了这个，我的意思是，这已不是什么秘密。我，我现在已经做过一些驱魔了和两位不同的神父一起，他们也是我的灵性导师。
And I went up there and I I've been I I kept having these nightmares, these these reoccurring nightmares, different scenarios, but it would it would destroy my family. I'm sure you've had dreams like this.
然后我去了那里然后我，我一直，我，我不断做这些噩梦，这些，这些反复出现的噩梦，不同的场景，但它，它会毁掉我的家庭。我相信你也做过这样的梦。
You wake up and it takes you a couple minutes to realize it was just a dream. Well, I kept having these. And what all this has done has drawn me further into Catholicism. I grew up Catholic, fell away from it.
你醒来后，需要几分钟才意识到那只是个梦。嗯，我一直在做这些梦。而这一切所导致的是让我更深地走进了天主教。我从小是天主教徒，后来脱离了教会。
Now I'm back in because I think they're some of the only ones that have an understanding of this realm. And I've been thinking about having this bishop on from the Catholic Church.
现在我回来了，因为我认为他们是少数真正了解这个领域的人。我一直在考虑邀请这位主教从天主教会来。
I had had this dream where he kept kind of like we were about to do the podcast and he kept like sending me these like cryptic homosexual messages like he wanted to get with me or something.
我做过这样一个梦，梦里他一直在，就好像我们即将做播客，而他一直给我发这些像是隐晦的同性恋信息，好像他想跟我在一起之类的。
This was in my dream and it was just making me furious and and it made me hate the Catholic Church. made me hate it. I woke up from it. I was like, I don't want to be a part of this anymore.
这在我的梦里，它让我怒火中烧而且而且它让我恨天主教教会。让我恨它。我从梦中醒来。我当时想，我不想再参与这件事了。
This is disgusting. Why, you know, it was vivid dream. And but it was all Yeah, I never met him. And then I still have never met him. And and but I I I just kept getting, you know, it was it was vivid.
这太恶心了。为什么，你知道，那是个生动的梦。但那都是 是的，我从未见过他。然后我仍然从未见过他。而且而且但是，我我我只是不停地，你知道，那那很生动。
It was like what? We're coming here to do the podcast to talk about the So I wake up. These priests had put me on this prayer regimen. It's called the Libra Cristo method. And so you say it at 6:00 a.m.
就像什么？我们来这里做播客，是为了谈论然后我醒了。这些神父让我进行这种祈祷仪式。这叫做天秤基督法。所以你在早上6点念诵它。
12 p.m. 6:00 p.m. So I go out, I kind of shake it off and I'm like, "All right, I'm going to go out and I'm going to start my prayer regimen." And so I start the prayer regimen. And in the middle of it, I start the St. Michael's prayer and a picture frame flies off the
中午12点下午6点于是我走出去，我试着甩掉那些情绪，心想，“好吧，我要走出去，并且开始我的祈祷计划。”于是我开始那祈祷计划。而在其中，我开始念圣米迦勒祷文然后一个相框从
And I'm like, "Holy shit." All right. I just had this weird dream that makes me hate Catholicism. Now I'm doing this prayer and this picture frame flies off the wall and then it's Sunday.
然后我就想，“我靠。”好吧。我刚做了个奇怪的梦，让我讨厌天主教。现在我在念这个祷文然后这个相框从墙上飞了下来然后就是星期天了。
So then I'm going to mass. So I go to mass and I'm with this guy we'll call him Hendo and he he he protects me, protects my family and has turned into a spiritual mentor of mine and a good friend.
然后我就去参加弥撒。所以我去参加弥撒，和这个人在一起我们叫他亨多，他他他保护我，保护我的家人并且成了我的精神导师和好朋友。
And we're going to mass together and I'm telling him about these things that are happening and he knows all the prior stuff. whole bunch of stuff had had happened prior to this too.
我们一起去参加弥撒我告诉他这些正在发生的事情，而他知道之前所有的事。在这之前也发生过一大堆事情。
And we get into mass and and I go and I take communion and immediately after I took communion I had an allergic reaction like immediately. And so this is all I think we went to 8:00 mass.
然后我们参加弥撒，我走上前去领圣体，就在我领完圣体之后，我立刻出现了过敏反应。所以这一切，我想我们是去参加了8点的弥撒。
So this is all within about 2 hours from end of the dream to the prayer to now we're at mass maybe 7:00 a.m. I don't know. So, I go up, I take communion, come back. I'm kneeling down.
所以这一切都发生在大约2小时内，从梦境结束到祈祷，到现在我们大概早上7点在做弥撒。我不知道。所以，我走上前去，领了圣体，然后回来。我跪了下来。
My face feels like it's on fire. And he looks at me and and he's like, "What?" He's like, "What? What's wrong with you?" And I'm like, "Is my face is my face red?" And he's like, "Yeah."
我的脸感觉像着火了一样。他看着我，然后他说，“什么？”他说，“什么？你怎么了？我就说，“我的脸是不是红了？”他说，“是的。”
He's like, "Your He's like, "Your veins are like popping out in your forehead and you look like a tomato." I'm like, "Man, my face feels like really hot. I'm having a I think I'm having a reaction to communion and I mean this is like seconds after I it's not even enough time for an allergic reaction to happen.
他说，“你的 他说，“你额头上的血管都凸出来了你看起来像个番茄。”我说，“天哪，我的脸感觉好烫。我觉得我对圣餐有反应了我是说这就像在我之后几秒钟甚至没有足够的时间让过敏反应发生。
and it happened seconds afterwards. And so, you know, it's these weird And right before that, I had told him we had we had got there a little early and I was like, you it's so weird cuz these things seem to happen in in sequences.
然后它就在几秒后发生了。所以，你知道，就是这些奇怪的，而就在那之前，我跟他说过我们，我们到得有点早然后我就想，你，这太奇怪了因为这些事似乎总是接连发生。
And I was like, it's just like one after the next and then nothing happened for a while and then we went into mass and bam, there it is. That kind of stuff has been happening to me for 3 months now.
然后我就想，就像是一个接一个然后有一段时间什么都没发生然后我们进入弥撒，砰，它就在那里。这种情况已经发生在我身上3个月了。
Ever since that, ever since that I guess the outstanding question I have is there's this experience you had three months ago. There's these experiences you've had thereafter and like what is I guess the audience will be thinking like what is the conclusion of this?
自从那之后，自从那之后，我想我还有一个悬而未决的问题，就是你三个月前有过这样一次经历。在那之后你有了这些经历我想观众会想的是这件事的结论是什么？
It's really interesting because I've I've done I've been a huge proponent for the psychedelic community and and all the good that it's done. But the minute you do something and you say something negative about it pisses everybody off.
这真的很有意思，因为我已经做过我一直是坚定的支持者为迷幻剂群体以及所有好的方面它所做出的一切。但一旦你做了某件事并且你说一些负面的东西关于它就会惹恼所有人。
They they don't want you to talk about it. How dare you? You know, and and it's there's two sides to it. And people need to know that. You know what I mean? And make their own decisions.
他们不想让你谈论这件事。你好大的胆子？你知道，这这件事有两面性。人们需要知道这一点。你明白我的意思吗？并做出自己的决定。
Like it's not all good. I just I just prove that, you know, and and do I know what it is? No. Do I know for certain that it came from psychedelics? I'm not saying that it did come from psychedelics.
就像它并不全是好的。我只是我只是证明了，你知道，而且而且我知道它是什么吗？不。我能确定它来自迷幻药吗？我不是说它确实来自迷幻药。
That seemed to be the trigger point, but it kind of appears to me like I'm the only one that's willing to talk about both sides because people are really upset, you know, that I'm talking about what happened to me, my journey.
那似乎就是触发点，但在我看来好像只有我一个人愿意谈论双方的观点因为人们真的很不安，你知道，我在谈论发生在我身上的事，我的旅程。
And like I said, I think that it opens you up to a forbidden realm that we maybe we shouldn't have access to. I mean, a lot of people say, you know, it lifts the veil. Yeah, it lifts the veil.
就像我说的，我认为它会向你打开一个禁忌的领域也许我们本不该接触的领域。我的意思是，很多人都说，你知道，它揭开了面纱。是的，它揭开了面纱。
All right. But maybe we have that veil over us for a reason. This is something that I've made for you. I realize that the divers here audience are strivvers. Whether it's in business or health, we all have big goals that we want to accomplish.
好的。但也许我们蒙着那层面纱是有原因的。这是我为你做的。我意识到这里的潜水员观众都是奋斗者。无论是在事业还是健康方面，我们都有想要实现的宏大目标。
And one of the things I've learned is that when you aim at the big big big goal, it can feel incredibly psychologically uncomfortable because it's kind of like being stood at the foot of Mount Everest and looking upwards.
我学到的一件事是，当你瞄准那个非常非常宏大的目标时，它在心理上会让人感到极度的不适，因为这就有点像站在珠穆朗玛峰脚下向上仰望。
The way to accomplish your goals is by breaking them down into tiny small steps. And we call this in our team the 1%. And actually this philosophy is highly responsible for much of our success here.
实现目标的方法就是把它分解成一个个微小的步骤。在我们的团队中，我们称之为1%。事实上，这一理念在很大程度上促成了我们在这里的成功。
So, what we've done so that you at home can accomplish any big goal that you have is we've made these 1% diaries and we released these last year and they all sold out. So, I asked my team over and over again to bring the diaries back, but also to introduce some new colors and to make some minor tweaks to the diary.
所以，我们所做的是为了让在家的你们也能实现任何重大目标我们制作了这些1%日记我们去年发布了这些日记，全部售罄。所以，我一次又一次地要求我的团队把日记本带回来，同时也要推出一些新的颜色并对日记本做一些小的调整。
So, now we have a better range for you. So, if you have a big goal in mind and you need a framework and a process and some motivation, then I highly recommend you get one of these diaries before they all sell out once again.
所以，现在我们为你提供了更好的选择。所以，如果你心中有一个大目标而且你需要一个框架、一个流程和一些动力，那么我强烈建议你买一本这样的日记本趁它们再次全部售罄之前。
And you can get yours at the diary.com. And if you want the link, the link is in the description below. There should be a button just down below here. And if it says subscribed, you're already subscribed.
你可以在diary.com获取你的。如果你想要链接，链接在下方描述中。这下面应该有一个按钮。如果显示已订阅，说明你已经订阅了。
If it says subscriber, that means you're not yet. And if you're not subscribed, please could you do us a favor and hit that button? It helps the show more than you know. And according to the algorithm, you're someone that watches our show, but you haven't yet hit that button.
如果显示订阅者，那意味着你还没有订阅。如果你还没有订阅，能否帮我们一个忙，点击那个按钮？它对节目的帮助远超你所知。而根据算法，你是观看我们节目的人，但你还没有按下那个按钮。
Thank you so much. Subsequently, you've had several exorcisms, which you've talked about over on your show. What is an exorcism? Cuz many of us only know a movie called The Exorcist, and that's only sort of reference point for an exorcism, but I from what I understand, it's a priest that does a sort of a process on you with the intent of removing something that is demonic.
非常感谢。随后，你经历了几次驱魔，你在自己的节目里谈过这些。什么是驱魔？因为我们很多人只知道一部叫《驱魔人》的电影，而那只是驱魔的某种参照，但据我所知，是神父对你进行某种仪式，目的是驱除某种恶魔般的东西。
Is that broadly what happens? Yeah. the movies, you know, are are very extreme to compare to to in comparison to what I've been through. I didn't, you know, do a backwards spider crawl up a wall or or anything even close to that.
大体上就是这样吗？是的。那些电影，你知道，与与我所经历的相比是非常极端的。我没有，你知道，倒着像蜘蛛一样爬上墙或者或者任何接近那样的事。
But and and I don't really want to go too far into it cuz I'm I'm still in this process. To my knowledge, there are two types. there are possession which is where you're not really in control of your body and your mind and then there is oppression which is things start happening around you and it could be all the things that we just talked about.
但是而且而且我真的不想深入讲这个，因为我我还在这个过程当中。据我所知，有两种类型。有附身，就是你并非真正掌控你的身体和心智，然后还有压迫就是你周围开始发生一些事情可能是我们刚刚谈到的所有事情。
It could be financial. It could be health. It could be trying to destroy your family. It could be trying to destroy your faith. It could be all of that, you know, but it's not. But you're still in control of your mind and your body.
可能是经济上的。可能是健康上的。它可能在试图摧毁你的家庭。它可能在试图摧毁你的信仰。它可能想摧毁这一切，你知道，但事实并非如此。但你仍然掌控着自己的思想和身体。
And so from the from the the the priests that I've talked to, they all think that it is oppression, oppression, not possession. What is it? I mean it is it's a series of prayers. They try to figure out what it is.
所以从我交谈过的那些神父来看，他们都认为这是压迫，是压迫，不是附身。那是什么？我的意思是，这是一系列的祈祷。他们试图弄清楚那是什么。
I don't know exactly everything that they're doing. Some of them have been done in Latin. some of them have been done in English. One of the commonalities seem to be, hey, we're going to do a series of these.
我并不确切知道他们在做什么。其中一些已经用拉丁语完成了。其中一些已经用英语完成了。一个共同点似乎是，嘿，我们将要做一系列这样的。
And we want to see if we get any reactions to certain prayers or certain parts of prayers. And if we do see a reaction to a certain part, then we can eliminate certain things and and and and kind of dial in on on what we think exactly is going on.
我们想知道某些祈祷文是否会引发任何反应或者祈祷文的某些部分。如果我们确实看到对某个部分的反应，那么我们就可以排除某些因素，然后逐步锁定锁定我们认为究竟发生了什么。
And you are right in the middle of this at the moment. How has it been for your family, for Katie? I mean, it's it's it's been rough. Yeah. I mean, imagine coming home to your wife and kids and saying, you know, just being honest.
而你此刻正处于这件事的正中心。对你们的家庭，对凯蒂来说，情况怎么样？我是说，这，这，这很难熬。是啊。我的意思是，想象一下回到家，对你的妻子和孩子们说，你知道，就是实话实说。
I just got done with my fifth exorcism today. And then thinking about the things that are going through their head because, you know, you think about, you know, what goes through your head?
我今天刚做完第五次驱魔。然后想想那些在他们脑海中闪过的念头，因为，你知道，你会想，你知道，你脑子里会想些什么？
Exactly what you said, the movies, you know, what is he what like is he in control of his own mind? What is going to happen? And I have the same questions. How bad is this going to get?
正如你所说，那些电影，你知道，他是什么样的人，他能控制自己的思想吗？会发生什么？我也有同样的疑问。这会变得多糟糕？
What's going to happen next? Is this is this is this ever going to go away? Is this just mine to carry for the rest of my life? What does my wife think? What does she think when she goes to bed next to me every night?
接下来会发生什么？这这这会不会永远消失？这难道只是我要背负一生的重担吗？我的妻子怎么想？当她每晚睡在我身边时，她在想什么？
Does she think I'm I'm I'm a crazy person? I was just imagining my fiance's she actually I think it's probably one of the first time she's ever been here, but she just happens to be here today.
她是不是觉得我是个疯子？我刚才只是在想象我未婚妻的她其实，我觉得这可能是第一次她来这里，但她今天恰好就在这里。
She's in one of the other rooms and I was just thinking I was imagining coming home and saying that to her. She is very spiritual. She's very religious as well. So I imagine she might pray for me.
她在另一间房间里我刚才只是在想，我在想象回家对她说这些话。她非常有灵性。她也很虔诚。所以我想她可能会为我祈祷。
I imagine I imagine she'd want to pray for Well, then you have an amazing woman and so do I. And she's been with me every step of the way. She's been there for some of them. she's seen some of the things happen, but it's been tough.
我想 我想她会想要祈祷 为了 好吧，那么你有一位了不起的女性，我也有。而且她一路都陪伴着我。她曾陪伴我度过其中一些时刻。她亲眼见过一些事情发生，但这一直很难熬。
It's been really tough. And you know what's interesting too is when I started talking about this, you feel like you're you're alone and you're crazy and I never really have cared what other people think about me, me, but this is pretty pretty personal stuff, but especially with the psychedelics thing.
这真的很难熬。而且你知道还有一点很有意思就是当我开始谈论这件事的时候，你会觉得自己很孤独，觉得自己疯了而我从来都不怎么在乎别人怎么看我，看我，但这是相当相当私人的事情，尤其是涉及到迷幻药这件事。
I had extremely influential military figures, SEALs, SF guys, Delta, like all these guys have reached out and said, "Man, I thought I was the only one that had that kind of an experience."
我接触过极有影响力的军事人物，海豹突击队、特种部队的人，三角洲部队，所有这些人都主动联系我说，“老兄，我以为我是唯一一个有过那种经历的人。”
I and they're telling me how brave I am for talking about it, you know. But I guess what I'm saying is I'm I'm not the only one, you know, that this this stuff happens to. I guess I'm just the only one that decided to articulate it.
他们告诉我，我敢于谈论这件事有多么勇敢，你知道。但我想说的是，我并不是唯一一个，你知道，这种事发生在其身上的那个人。我想我只是唯一一个决定把它说出来的人。
How are you? I'm good. Yeah, that's I was going, you know, there is a positive to all of this and you know, for me, are you a Christian? It's a good question. I was raised Christian in a very very Christian household.
你好吗？我很好。是的，我正要说的，你知道，这一切都有好的一面，而且你知道，对我来说，你是基督徒吗？这是个好问题。我在一个非常非常虔诚的基督教家庭中长大。
So, you know, to some degree it's somewhat in your bones. I think at like 18 19 I started having lots of questions and then I became I was one of those people in the sort of new atheist movement they called it that got really interested in reading all the like Richard Dawkins books and I went through that phase where I just wanted to argue with everybody because I was trying to form my own opinion and I came out of that and stopped caring and now I find myself in a place that I would describe as like as agnostic but curious and that curiosity I think maybe from doing this podcast frankly and the interviewing some of the people that I have has has continued to develop.
所以，你知道，在某种程度上这已经深入骨髓。我觉得大概在18、19岁的时候，我开始有很多疑问然后我成了那种人在那个所谓的新无神论运动中，他们这么称呼它，我对阅读所有像理查德·道金斯的书很感兴趣，我经历了那个阶段，我只想和所有人争论因为我在试图形成自己的观点然后我走出了那个阶段，不再在乎了而现在我发现自己处于一个境地我会形容为有点像不可知但好奇而这种好奇心，我想也许来自做这个播客，坦白说以及采访一些我一直在不断接触的人。
So I found myself in a place where I think it would be extremely arrogant for me to say that I didn't think there was something more. But I I I don't I I couldn't say what I what it was.
所以我发现自己处于一个我认为如果我说我不认为还有更多的东西，那会极其傲慢。但我，我，我，我不，我，我说不出那是什么。
I couldn't define it like some people are able to define it. Like the Christian apologists like Wes Huff Wes Huff can define it. I can't define what that means for me. Well, don't you think it's interesting that all these people keep coming on your podcast and bringing this stuff up?
我无法像有些人那样把它定义清楚。就像基督教护教学者韦斯·赫夫那样韦斯·赫夫能把它定义清楚。我无法定义那对我意味着什么。嗯，你不觉得这很有意思吗所有这些人不断来上你的播客并提起这些事情？
people that maybe you would never expect like like your most recent one Andrew Hubman. No, it is fascinating. It is truly That's what started happening to me. on your show. Yeah. That's where that's where the seed was was planted.
那些你可能永远意想不到的人就像你最近那位安德鲁·哈布曼。不，这很迷人。这确实就是开始发生在我身上的事。在你的节目上。是的。那就是种子被播下的地方。
You know, I grew up, like I said, I grew up Catholic, but that's what started happening to me is all these people started coming on and they would and it was fascinating to me to hear their journey, but I didn't, you know, I was like you on the fence.
你知道，我从小，就像我说的，我从小是天主教徒，但那就是开始发生在我身上的事就是所有这些人都开始出现，他们会听他们的经历对我来说很着迷，但我没有，你知道，我就像你一样，持观望态度。
You got baptized quite recently. Yeah. I can't remember what year. 2024, I think it was. Yeah. On Easter. It's just funny, you know, how it works. But but so where I was going, you know, with all this stuff that's happening and and and it's scary and but it gets less scary and less scary and you know what it is doing is it's just it's it's strengthening my faith and my wife's faith in Christ because the the the things that are happening are just undeniable.
你最近才受洗。是的。我记不清是哪一年了。2024年，我想是的。是的。在复活节。这很有趣，你知道的，它是怎么运作的。但但所以我要说的是，你知道，随着这一切事情的发生而且而且而且这很可怕但但它变得越来越不那么可怕了你知道它在做什么吗它只是它它它在坚固我的信心和我妻子对基督的信心因为因因为正在发生的事情是不可否认的。
You said to Tucker Carlson in July, I'm going through a crazy spiritual transformation right now. It must be somewhat difficult to share this with with the world, you know, for lots of different reasons because it's a it's a subjective experience.
你在七月份对塔克·卡尔森说，我现在正在经历一场疯狂的精神转变。这一定有些困难向世界分享这个，你知道，因为很多不同的原因因为这是一种主观体验。
So to sort of communicate that publicly, you I could see as you were explaining it like you you're well aware that people will think it's like it's what's he talking about or it's some whatever.
所以，要公开地传达这一点，你，我能看出当你解释的时候，就像你你很清楚人们会认为这就像他在说什么，或者是什么乱七八糟的东西。
Like when you deliver your truth, you also acknowledge as you're saying it. Some people will think I'm just saying, but you just have to take my word for it. So, it's not easy to make that decision to share it.
就像当你传达你的真相时，你在说的时候也承认了这一点。有些人会认为我只是在说说而已，但你只能相信我的话。所以，做出分享这个决定并不容易。
What What inspired that? What inspired your decision to come out and tell your audience very publicly you're going through this? A couple reasons. One is we get access to a lot of people that nobody gets access to, you know, and and we get a lot of time with them.
是什么启发了这个？是什么启发了你决定出柜并向你的观众非常公开地讲述你正在经历这些？有几个原因。一是我们能接触到很多人是其他人接触不到的，你知道，而且我们能和他们相处很长时间。
I ask them on my podcast. I just ask the questions, you know, that I'm that I'm genuinely curious and for my for myself. Mhm. And on top of that, I feel like it's kind of maybe my responsibility or that maybe I'm supposed to do that, you know, because because I do have one of the biggest podcasts in the world and I'm a I'm just a normal guy.
我在我的播客里问他们。我只是问那些问题，你知道，那些我真正好奇的为我自己。嗯。而且最重要的是，我觉得这或许算是我的责任，或者说也许我应该这么做，你知道，因为因为我确实拥有世界上最火的播客之一而我只是一个普通人。
I think a lot of people realize that about me and because I get the access to the people that I get access to, you know, I think it's important that I ask those kind of questions. You know, one thing that came out of this, you know, for me is I I just I've never like Some of these things, some of these supernatural type things happened the night before I had Cardinal Burke on and he is very high up in the Catholic church.
我想很多人都意识到了我这一点而且因为我能接触到那些我能接触到的人，你知道，我觉得这很重要我应该问那类问题。你知道，由此产生的一件事，你知道，对我来说就是，我只是，我从来不像，其中一些事情，其中一些超自然类型的事情发生了就在我请伯克枢机主教上节目的前一晚而他在天主教会中地位非常高。
And so, one thing I decided I wanted to do is cuz I I got way more involved in politics than I wanted to be. And you now I think pretty much all of them are just lying pieces of And so I don't really want to do it anymore.
所以，我决定想做的一件事是，因为我越来越多地卷入了政治，超出了我原本的意愿。而你现在，我想几乎所有的他们都只是撒谎的碎片所以，我真的不想再做了。
Well, that leaves a a huge gap in my content. And I'm not saying I will never do it again, but it's unlikely. So now I have this gap that's opened and I I am obviously very interested in Christianity now.
嗯，这在内容上留下了一个巨大的空白。我并不是说我永远不会再这样做，但这不太可能。所以现在我有这个打开的缺口而我我现在显然对基督教非常感兴趣。
And I've read maybe half the Bible, maybe a little bit more, understand maybe 5 10% of what I've read. So, what I want to do is, you know, just like I was saying, I think I'm supposed to ask these questions and and and I get access to people that almost nobody gets access to.
我大概读了半本圣经，也许稍微多一点，大概理解了我读过的5%到10%。所以，我想做的是，你知道，就像我刚才说的，我觉得我应该问这些问题而且而且而且我能接触到一些人几乎没有人能接触到的人。
And so, I want to do a a series breaking down every single book in the Bible on my podcast. And it'll take several years, you know, to get through it all. But right when we kicked it off with Cardinal Burke the night before all wild supernatural things you know started happening the night before and so to me that's a sign like yeah I am supposed to be doing this.
所以，我想做一个系列在我的播客上逐一解读圣经中的每一卷书。你知道，全部完成需要好几年。但就在我们与伯克枢机主教启动它的那个晚上之前所有那些疯狂的超自然事件你知道开始发生的那前一晚所以对我来说那是一个迹象就像是的我注定要做这件事。
Were those the supernatural things we talked about before or is this lots of other things difference the timing? You cannot make the timing up. And have supernatural things ever happened to you before that experience you had 3 months ago? Not like that.
那些是我们之前谈过的超自然事件还是这是许多其他事情的区别在于时间？你无法编造出这个时间。在那次三个月前的经历之前，你身上有没有发生过超自然的事情？你有过超自然的事情吗不是那样的。
Not like this. This is the spiritual realm playing out in real time. A battle over over my soul. A battle over your soul. Yeah. And this is why you have to pray several times a day is to I'm assuming to reinforce which side of that battle is winning.
不是这样的。这是灵界正在实时上演。一场争夺我灵魂的战斗。一场争夺你灵魂的战斗。是的。这就是为什么你每天必须祈祷几次，我猜是为了强化那场战斗中哪一方正在获胜。
It is to release oppression. And you don't know how long you're going to have to do that for or how long this is going to take? No idea. Do you know when you'll know that it's that battle for your soul has been won?
是为了释放压迫。而你也不知道你得那样做多久或者这要花多长时间？不知道。你知道什么时候你会知道那场为你灵魂而战的斗争已经胜利了吗？
All I'm told is that you will just you'll know. You will know. it will be very apparent. Is it difficult to be you right now? Yeah, I know what this is for me. And now that I know what it is, now you know, we were talking about responsibility earlier.
我只被告知，你会，你自然会知道。你会知道的。这会非常明显。你现在这样很难受吗？是的，我知道这对我来说意味着什么。现在我知道它是什么了，现在你知道了，我们之前谈到了责任。
And now that I know what this is, this is a battle between good and evil. Now I I'm no longer on the fence. I can't pretend that I don't know. So, for example, I've already had advertisers who have been with me for We just had a meeting on how to deepen the relationship with this one particular advertiser because they've been with me for so long and they just canled because they don't advertise on faith-based content.
现在我知道这是什么了，这是善与恶之间的斗争。现在我不再犹豫不决了。我无法假装我不知道。所以，举例来说，我已经有广告商跟我合作了我们刚刚开了一个会，讨论如何加深关系与这个特定的广告商因为他们跟我合作了这么久他们刚刚取消了，因为他们不在基于信仰的内容上做广告。
This is a life insurance company who wants to get to people who give a about their wife and their kids so that if something goes wrong, their wife and kids are taken care of. Now, I'm sorry.
这是一家想要接触人们的寿险公司那些在乎自己妻子和孩子的人这样如果出了什么事，他们的妻子和孩子能得到照顾。现在，我很抱歉。
What audience are you trying to reach? People that give a about their families and you don't want to advertise on faith-based content. They are maybe the only ones that that put family at the very top of the priority list and you're going to cancel when I get farther into that.
你想触达的是什么受众？那些关心自己家人的人而你不想在以信仰为基础的内容上投放广告。他们也许是唯一把家庭放在最优先位置的人，而你要取消等我更深入地讲到那里时。
How do you feel about that decision? What do you think that is? I think it is a influence to try to get me to not talk about it. Just like the series of events that happened the night before I had Cardinal Burke on.
你对那个决定有什么看法？你觉得那是什么？我认为那是一种影响，试图让我不去谈论它。就像那天晚上发生的一系列事件在我请伯克枢机主教来之前。
You think it's part of the battle for your soul? I think that my platform as well as yours has a lot of power. And when you have the ability to reach more people than you and I could ever count in a lifetime and you're leading people to that book, it pisses a lot of entities off.
你觉得这是争夺你灵魂的战斗的一部分？我认为我的平台和你的平台都有很大的影响力。当你有能力接触到更多人多到你我一生都数不过来而你在引导人们走向那本书，这会惹怒很多实体。
It pisses a lot of people off. There's no more pretending for me. Like I know what this is. So, I have to make a decision, you know, because I do believe in heaven and hell. And so, if I say we can't do the Bible series anymore because we're going to lose advertisers, I can't take any of that money with me after this is over anyways.
这惹恼了很多人。对我来说，不再有伪装了。就像我知道这是什么一样。所以，我必须做出一个决定，你知道，因为我确实相信天堂和地狱。因此，如果我说我们不能再做《圣经》系列了因为我们会失去广告商，反正这一切结束后我也带不走那些钱。
It sucks. I have goals. I'm sure you have goals. I think me and you have both probably seen a pattern in the guests we've interviewed, you focus a lot on life stories. One of the remarkable things I notic in the life stories often when I'm asked like what is the pattern of these successful people?
这很糟糕。我有目标。我相信你也有目标。我想你我可能都注意到了一种模式在我们采访过的嘉宾中，你会非常关注人生故事。我注意到的一件了不起的事情在人生故事中经常当我被问到这些成功人士有什么共同模式时？
I always site that in their stories there is a moment when they made a decision that was against their near-term incentives. And often I mean this could be you know I think about Jimmy Carr.
我总是说，在他们的故事中有一个时刻当他们做出决定违背了他们近期的利益。而且我常常指的是，你知道我想到了吉米·卡尔。
He had a great job and he went to do jokes in pubs for like 5 or 10 years and got paid nothing for it. or Darren Brown, one of the world's great illusionists who had a great job but went and did card tables in Bristol for 10 years because that was his thing.
他有一份很好的工作，却去酒吧讲笑话，大约讲了5到10年，而且分文未得。或者达伦·布朗，世界上最伟大的幻术师之一，他有一份很好的工作，却去布里斯托尔做了10年牌桌表演，因为那是他的热爱。
You look at these moments in their life, you go, it only only an idiot would have done that at that moment. But consistently, what it leads to is a better place. And I think when you were saying, you know, there's a short-term sacrifice potentially to pursue living more in alignment.
你看他们人生中的这些时刻，你会说，只有大聪明才会在那一刻那么做。但始终如一的是，它通向一个更好的地方。我觉得当你说，你知道，可能会有短期的牺牲去追求更符合本心地生活。
I don't know, the conversations I've had is every great person that I've interviewed has has got that in their story. Sometimes several times. They've all walked away from something that others in sane humans might not have because of the strength of the incentive in the pursuit of alignment with themselves.
我不知道，我进行过的对话中，每一个伟大的人我采访过的他们的故事里都有这一点。有时甚至好几次。他们都离开了某些东西那些其他正常人类可能不会离开的因为激励的力量在追求与自我一致的过程中。
Yes, there's some near-term turbulence, but consistently like living out of alignment is I think a much worse long-term place to be. Mhm. It's like you're right. Do you know what I mean?
是的，会有一些短期的动荡，但始终如一地过着与自我不一致的生活我认为从长远来看是一个糟糕得多的处境。嗯。就好像你是对的。你明白我的意思吗？
We kind of talked about it even with like booking guests on the podcast. like, yeah, I could have insert famous celebrity person on, but then I'm I'm incrementally swaying away from my own like alignment.
我们大概谈过这个即使是在播客上预订嘉宾方面。就像，是的，我本可以插入著名名人，但然后我我逐渐偏离我自己的那种一致性。
And and you know, in the near term, I might get a couple more subs. But over the long term, I have a life I hate. Exactly. You know, you know, exactly. You become part of the herd.
而且而且你知道，在短期内，我可能会多几个订阅者。但长期来看，我过着我讨厌的生活。没错。你知道，你知道，没错。你成为羊群的一部分。
It's easy to be part of the herd. What is your goal now? Is there a central goal that you sort of orientate yourself towards in podcasting? in podcasting with your businesses in podcasting.
成为羊群的一部分很容易。你现在的目标是什么？是否有一个核心目标让你在某种程度上以此为导向在播客中？在播客中，在你的播客业务中。
You know, I think it's a couple of things. I think it's, you know, we already talked about this the Bible, but I think that, you know, your team actually sent me a similar question before we got here and I thought a lot about it, you know, cuz it always changes, but there's one commonality I think in my in my show and I just don't want people to be afraid to ask questions and I don't want people to be so tribal.
你知道，我认为这涉及几个方面。我觉得这是，你知道，我们已经谈过这个了，圣经，但我认为，你知道，你的团队其实给我发了一个类似的问题在我们来这里之前我想了很多，你知道，因为它总是在变，但我觉得在我的节目里有一个共同点我只是不希望人们害怕提问我也不希望人们如此部落化。
I have a pretty open mind, you know, regardless of what people think about me. I'll talk to both. So, I've had Brohan on several times and Jank U is a friend of mine. You know, Tucker Carlson's a friend of mine.
我思想相当开放，你知道，不管别人怎么看我。两边我都会谈。所以，我请过Brohan好几次而Jank U是我的朋友。你知道，塔克·卡尔森是我的朋友。
And so, I'm open to all ideas. I'm able to say I'd made a mistake. I'm able to hold myself accountable, you know, for things. and and I've publicly made statements saying that I've messed up, saying that I've put out misinformation unknowingly, you know, and I have to correct the record cuz I I I I just I really pride myself on integrity.
所以，我愿意接受所有想法。我能够承认我犯了一个错误。我能够为自己负责，你知道，对事情。而且而且我公开声明过说我把事情搞砸了，说我在不知情的情况下传播了错误信息，你知道，我必须纠正记录，因为我我我我我只是我真的很以正直为傲。
And we don't see very many people left holding themselves accountable. And so I, you know, a couple through my show, I just I I I want to show that you can ask questions and take a stand for what you believe in.
而我们看不到很多人留下来为自己负责。所以我，你知道，通过我的节目认识了几对，我只是，我，我，我想表明你可以提出问题并为你所信仰的东西站出来。
And maybe the repercussions that you have come up with in in your head aren't going to be near as severe is is is what you what you might think they're going to be. You know, they say courage is contagious.
也许你所想到的那些后果在你脑海中，并不会像你所想象的那样严重。你知道，人们说勇气是会传染的。
And I I think that this country needs I think the people in this country need courage. And so I want to show like you can like talk about these things and ask questions and it's going to be okay, man.
而且我，我认为这个国家需要，我认为这个国家的人民需要勇气。所以我想表明，你可以谈论这些事情并提出问题，一切都会好起来的，伙计。
It's going to be just fine. Yeah, you might get a little bit of hate, but like I'm I'm still here and I've covered some of the most controversial on the planet, you know? I think that's really important.
一切都会好起来的。是的，你可能会招来一些恨意，但就像我，我依然在这里而且我报道过地球上一些最具争议性的话题，你知道吗？我觉得那真的很重要。
And what does a what does a good life mean to you these days? A good life to me is just creating memories with my wife and kids. I think we're both in in very good financial situations.
那么如今，美好的生活对你来说意味着什么？对我来说，美好的生活就是创造回忆和我的妻子和孩子们一起。我认为我们俩的经济状况都非常好。
I don't know where you came from, but I didn't come from money. And what I've realized, you hear it, and nobody's going to believe me when I say it, but you just can't buy peace and you can't buy happiness.
我不知道你从哪来，但我不是出身富贵。而我意识到，你听到了，当我说出来时，没人会相信我，但你买不到平静，也买不到幸福。
You have to create it yourself. And you're not going to create it with money. Yep. It will take some financial stress off, but it brings a whole other side of of of stress. And so, you have to do what you love and you have to live in the moment as much as you can and and create as many memories with the people that you love as as as possible.
你必须自己去创造它。而且你无法用金钱去创造它。是的。这会减轻一些经济压力，但它带来了另一方面的压力。所以，你必须做你热爱的事并且尽可能活在当下尽可能与你爱的人创造尽可能多的回忆。
And you know, so it's it's made me I wouldn't say back off my business cuz I'm a workaholic. I I know you are too, but you have to work smarter and look for the power plays. And sometimes no is the is the best business decision you could make, not it was a bad deal, because it wasn't the right deal.
而且你知道，所以这让我，我不会说是减少我的业务因为我是个工作狂。我知道你也是，但你必须更聪明地工作，寻找权力博弈。有时候，不，是最好的商业决定你能做的，不是因为它是一笔糟糕的交易，因为它不是合适的交易。
Does that make sense? Smarter decision. It's something a narrative that I hear from from fathers and mothers much more than anybody else because now they really do have to think deeply about priorities whereas you know I'm yet to have children.
这说得通吗？更明智的决定。我从父亲们那里听到的一种说法和母亲们，比任何人都多因为现在他们真的必须深入思考优先事项而你知道我还没有孩子。
I hope we have I will have children soon but but right now my life is probably a little bit more selfish in that regard than yours is because the competition for my time is my business and then you know my partner, my fiance.
我希望我们很快会有孩子但但现在我的生活可能在这方面有点更自私比你的更自私因为争夺我时间的是我的事业然后你知道我的伴侣，我的未婚夫。
But you love your business. I love it. there's nothing else you'd rather be doing. So, for whatever it's worth, I I think you're doing the right time, the right thing. The time for you to build is now because when you do have kids and you do realize how fast they grow and you look, you know, when your when your kids's born and then 6 months you look back and you're like, "Holy shit."
但你热爱你的事业。我热爱它。没有其他你更想做的事了。所以，不管怎么说，我我觉得你来的正是时候，做的是对的事。你现在正是打造事业的时候，因为等你有孩子了你就会意识到他们长得有多快，你回头看，你知道，当你的孩子出生，然后六个月后你回头看，你会想，“天哪。”
Like, they he was this big and now he's this big and now he's this big. 5 years later and you're like I mean it makes me tear up right now. It's like where does where did it go? Where did the time go?
就像，他之前这么大，现在这么大现在他这么大。5年后，你会觉得我的意思是，此刻这让我热泪盈眶。就像，它去哪儿了？时间都去哪儿了？
So build man build it as big as you can get it right now. Look for the smart deals and then I hope you know I hope you do get the opportunity to raise kids but business can destroy a family.
所以建造吧，伙计，现在就把它建得尽可能大。寻找明智的交易，然后我希望你知道我希望你确实得到抚养孩子的机会但生意可以毁掉一个家庭。
You got to be careful of that. Why is that the warning that you give me? Is that from experience? Then what? You said you you're miser thinking about the speed of growth of your son.
你得小心这一点。为什么你给我的是那个警告？那是来自经验吗？然后呢？你说你在想你儿子的成长速度。
Why? You only get one shot at this. You're everything to them. And if you're not there, somebody else will be everything to
为什么？你只有这一次机会。你是他们的一切。如果你不在，别人就会成为他们的一切
Where is this coming from, Sean? You can see it sometimes. It's a battle. I mean it's a battle you know for me and so the time you know it's it's always you know you hear people complain about it and try to find it all the time what is the right balance how do you do the balance I don't know I do the best I can to figure it out But it it you you you you can see how much time they want to spend with you and and all the phone calls and all the business deals and you know the the that seems so important because it's going to put you at the next level, you know, and you're probably like me.
你怎么突然说这个，肖恩？有时候你能看出来。这是一场战斗。我的意思是，这对我来说是一场战斗，所以你知道，时间……就是，总是，你知道……你听到人们抱怨这件事而且一直试图找到它什么才是正确的平衡？你如何做到平衡？我不知道，我尽我所能去弄明白但你可以看到他们想花多少时间和你在一起还有所有的电话和所有的商业交易你知道，那些似乎如此重要因为这会把你的水平提升到下一个层次，你知道，你可能和我一样。
your team's like, "Holy Steven's got to pivot and we got to get the done by in 12 hours, you know, and it's those kind of phone calls, you know, like, hey, we this guy went on this, we're going to we're going to shift this podcast to this day.
你的团队就像，“天哪，史蒂文得转向了我们得在12小时内搞定，你知道，就是那种电话，你知道，就像，嘿，我们这个人去了这个，我们要把这个播客改到这一天。
Put this one in this thing hit, you know, it's a chessboard, you know what I mean?" And and you'll and and and that that's a 24-hour a day business to be the best. You're always switched on.
把这个放进这个东西里，你知道，这是一个棋盘，你明白我的意思吗？而且而且你会而且而且而且那那是一个一天24小时的事业，要成为最好的。你总是处于开启状态。
Even when you're not trying to be switched on, you're switched on. Pistons are firing in your brain all the time. And you got your 2-year-old over here that just wants to play trains with you.
即使你不想处于开启状态，你也是开启的。你大脑里的活塞一直在运转。而你这边还有个两岁的孩子只想和你一起玩火车。
And you can't get in the you can't get in the mode. You can you can you can sit there and push a toy train around, but they they know when you're there and when you're not there. Have you got regrets in this regard or is it was it guilt?
而你无法进入，你无法进入那种状态。你可以，你可以，你可以坐在那里推着一辆玩具火车转来转去，但它们知道你在那里，什么时候你不在那里。在这方面你有遗憾吗，还是那是内疚？
What is it? What is the emotion? Yeah, there's some guilt. With that being said, I'm I'm I am, you know, I'm very close with my kids, but I could be closer. And that really matters to you, It takes a lot for me to leave home to come do stuff like this. this.
那是什么？那是什么情绪？是的，有一些内疚。话虽如此，我，我，我是，你知道，我和我的孩子们非常亲近，但我本可以更亲近。而这对你来说真的很重要，我离开家需要付出很大代价才能来做这样的事情。这样的事情。
Incredibly admirable, you know, and Dare I say that even, you know, I think about all the all the gifts my parents gave me by by demonstrating the values of work and and striving and overcoming.
非常令人钦佩，你知道，而且我敢说，甚至，你知道，我想到我父母给我的所有所有礼物通过通过展现工作和和奋斗和克服的价值观。
And I think generally like the some of the gifts that I look back on as a young kid, but we didn't come from from money. The some of the things that I'm most thankful to my parents of is just is nothing they said.
而且我觉得总的来说，就像一些礼物我作为一个小孩回顾起来的，但我们并非来自来自富裕家庭。其中一些事情我最感激我父母的是就是他们什么都没说。
It's not that they pushed the trains around with me. It's like the fundamental lessons they gave me about life vicariously watching how they conducted themselves. And one of the things I think about with my mom is just like she never compl like she just like worked all the time for us, you know, for to make sure that we were good.
并不是他们陪我一起摆弄火车。而是那些基本的道理他们间接教给我的关于生活的东西看着他们如何为人处世。我想到我妈妈的一件事就是，她从不抱怨，她只是一直为我们努力工作，你知道，为了确保我们过得好。
and to the point that at one point she started sleeping on this bag of rice in the back of her little corner shop. And she she never complained. She and through that she taught me the lesson of like hard work and striving.
以至于有一段时间她开始睡在一袋大米上，就在她那个小街角店的后面。而她从来没有抱怨过。而她通过这件事教会了我努力奋斗的道理。
And there's no possibility that I'd be sat here now with a life that I love, doing something that I love, with a perspective that has been helpful for me in terms of dealing with hardship and all those things if I hadn't watched her through her absence teach me this lesson.
我不可能像现在这样坐在这里，拥有我热爱的生活，做着我热爱的事情，带着一种对我有帮助的视角，来应对困难以及所有那些事情，如果我没有透过她的缺席，学到这一课。
So I sometimes, you know, all I say that to say that the nature of the absence I think also matters, you know, cuz that's going to be the story I think for a lot of that's was the story for me.
所以我有时候，你知道，我说这些只是想说明，我觉得缺席的性质也很重要，你知道，因为我觉得那将会是那个故事对很多人来说，那就是我的故事。
It's like what where was my mom? My mom and my dad, they were out working for me. But it's a trade. It's a trade. It's a trade. Yeah. It's a trade. Cuz am I as close to them as I might have been otherwise?
就像，我妈妈在哪里？我妈妈和爸爸，他们为了我在外面工作。但这是一笔交易。这是一笔交易。这是一笔交易。是的。这是个交易。因为我能像原本可能的那样与他们亲近吗？
No. But you're talking about necessity. Yeah. Yeah. And what we're talking about is abundance. Yeah. Yeah. True. Yeah. And there's a difference. Mhm. So, what's your conclusion there?
不。但你说的是必要性。是的。是的。而我们正在谈论的是富足。是的。是的。真的。是的。而且是有区别的。嗯。那么，你的结论是什么？
Is there a conclusion? Is there an action to take? Is there I'm I'm still figuring it out, but the is look for the power plays. Look for things that make sense. Hold off for the right deals.
有结论吗？有需要采取的行动吗？有没有我，我还在琢磨，但关键是寻找权力博弈。寻找合理的事情。等待合适的交易。
Only do what you really believe in. The quick money is all like my newest business, Glacier. I didn't know that was going to come, but I knew something big was going to come that made sense.
只做你真正相信的事。快钱就像我最新的生意，Glacier。我不知道那会来，但我知道会有重要的事情来，而且合情合理。
And I've turned down so many opportunities because I just I didn't feel like it was me. And then this came along and it was just me solving my own problem. And it's a privacy and digital security mobile app.
我拒绝了很多机会因为我觉得那不适合我。然后这个出现了而这正是我在解决自己的问题。这是一款隐私与数字安全移动应用。
What does it do? We made the simplest phone privacy app that's out there. It's got a VPN. It's got secure DNS and it has burner numbers. You walk around every day, you have all these apps.
它是做什么的？我们打造了目前市面上最简单的手机隐私应用。它自带VPN。它有安全DNS和一次性号码。你每天走来走去，手机里有所有这些应用。
These apps are sucking information out of your phone. They're pushing it to data brokers that's being sold to who the hell knows who. I mean, I just had Byron Taon. He thinks that the Iranians attacked a base by buying data from a data broker and then attacked a US base because of it.
这些应用正在从你的手机里吸走信息。它们把信息推送给数据经纪商，然后被卖给了天知道是谁。我是说，我刚刚和拜伦·陶恩聊过。他认为伊朗人袭击了一个基地通过从一家数据经纪商购买数据，然后袭击了美国基地就因为这件事。
basically tapping into soldiers phones just through everyday data broker marketing And so what the secure DNS is is it blocks all that from getting sucked out of your phone. The VPN's great, but that's not the focus.
基本上就是入侵士兵的手机仅仅通过日常数据经纪商的营销。所以安全DNS的作用是它会阻止所有那些数据从你的手机中被吸走。VPN很棒，但那不是重点。
The real win here is is the secure DNS and the burner numbers. I mean, now you can hand out burner numbers. Yeah, here you can get a hold of me on this burner number. When that burner and you feel like that burner number's been abused, you just hit the button, it goes away.
真正的胜利在于安全的DNS和一次性号码。我的意思是，现在你可以分发一次性号码了。是的，你可以通过这个一次性号码联系到我。当那个一次性号码让你觉得那个一次性号码被滥用了，你只需按下按钮，它就会消失。
they can never contact you again and you can you you buy another one. What a cool product and very well aligned. Thank you. Thank you. Look, for for me, I'm not going to do two podcasts a week forever.
他们再也无法联系到你而且你可以再买一个。多么酷的产品，而且非常契合。谢谢。谢谢。听着，对我来说，我不可能永远每周做两期播客。
I love to do this. Two a week, it's too much for me and my family, especially traveling around and and doing foreign countries and this other stuff. Like it I I have to slim it down.
我喜欢做这个。一周两次，对我和我的家人来说太多了，尤其是到处旅行，还有去外国以及这些别的事情。就像我，我必须减少一些。
So, I'm eventually I'm going to go to one a week and I've been given this platform and I want to start businesses that I truly believe in that solves a real problem cuz I love business.
所以，我最终会变成每周去一次而且我得到了这个平台我想开始创业做我真正相信的、能解决实际问题的事业因为我热爱商业。
I love you know I also think about the other side like well what if I was what if I was solely a dad and husband and I didn't get any of the phone calls and I wasn't able to I didn't have a creative outlet.
你知道，我也会想另一面，就是如果我只是一个父亲和丈夫，我完全不会接到那些电话而且我无法——我没有一个创意的出口。
I love the creativity of business and and creating your way on how to win, you know? I mean, I think a lot of people hit a roadblock and like, didn't work. There's always another way.
我喜欢商业的创造力，以及创造自己的取胜之道，你知道吗？我的意思是，我觉得很多人会碰到瓶颈，然后就像，行不通。总有别的办法。
There's always another way to win, you know? And that's that's one of the things that I took and one of the positive things that I took from my days at contracting for CIA and being a Navy Seal is there is always a way to win, but you have to you have to be creative enough to find all the different avenues to the goal that you want to get and reverse engineer that and dare I say have a bit of persistence.
要知道，总有另一种取胜的方法吧？而那，那是我学到的东西之一也是我收获的积极事物之一从我给中情局做承包工作和当海豹突击队员的日子里那就是总有办法取胜，但你必须，你必须足够有创造力去找到所有不同的途径通往你想要达到的目标并逆向拆解它而且恕我直言，还要有一点坚持不懈。
Yeah, a lot of persistence. It's an education, you know, and you get smarter along the way. So, in a long way, I think that's my conclusion. We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're leaving it for.
是的，需要很多坚持。这是一种教育，你知道，你会在这个过程中变得更聪明。所以，从长远来看，我想这就是我的结论。我们这个播客有一个收尾传统就是最后一位嘉宾留下一个问题给下一位嘉宾，而不知道他们会留给谁。
And the question left for you is, what is love? What is love? The first thing that comes to mind is love is what you're willing to die for. H And what are you willing to die for? my family.
留给你的问题是，爱是什么？爱是什么？首先想到的是爱是你愿意为之付出生命的东西。H那你愿意为什么付出生命？我的家人。
Sean, thank you. Thank you for being an inspiration for us podcasters. We've learned so much from what you do. I think the big lesson that I've taken from you is actually just around kind of what we talked about earlier on is you're such a high integrity person that lives with such great alignment to what you believe.
肖恩，谢谢你。感谢你为我们播客主带来灵感。我们从你的所作所为中学到了很多。我觉得我从你身上学到的最重要的一课其实就是围绕着我们之前聊过的那些就是你是一个如此高度正直的人，生活与你所坚信的保持着如此高度的一致。
You do things your way and that's why I think you know people like you I admire so much cuz in the world we live in so easy to copy and follow and you know all those kinds of things.
你按自己的方式做事这就是为什么我觉得你认识那些像你这样的人，我如此钦佩，因为在我们生活的世界里很容易去复制和跟随你知道所有那些事情。
But there are some people I look out there and I go, do you know what? That person's doing it their way. I know who they are because what they're producing is so n of one. It there's only one of them.
但有些人，我看着他们，我会想，你知道吗？那个人在按自己的方式做事。我知道他们是谁，因为他们制作的内容是所以n等于一。如果只有一个的话。
And that and so that's those are the people that I have the most respect for as as sort of a podcasting peer. And you're certainly one of them. And you know, as well with the subject matter we talked about you being in pursuit of your truth and your alignment even in spite of there being obvious costs like losing advertisers or what people might think if again it's a it's a demonstration of your integrity as a man.
所以那些人就是我最尊敬的人作为播客同行来说。而你无疑是其中之一。而且你知道，以及我们谈论过的话题你追求自己的真理和内心的契合即使面临明显的代价比如失去广告商或别人的看法如果这再次证明了作为一个男人的正直。
And and then lastly, your real focus on family being at the heart of it and seeing the emotion in your face as you describe. This sort of battle that I know a lot of my audience have every single day in their own lives between ambition and goals and these types of things, but then the love of family and kids and all those things is another wonderful reminder for me at this point in my life where I feel like I'm about to tussle with the same situation.
然后最后，你真正以家庭为核心以及在你描述时看到你脸上的情感。这种我所熟知的斗争我的许多观众每天都要面对在他们自己的生活中在雄心、目标以及这类事物之间，但与此同时，对家庭、孩子的爱以及所有这些事情在我人生的这个阶段，是另一个美妙的提醒让我感觉自己即将要面对同样的处境。
So, thank you for doing all that you do. I'm a I'm a great fan of yours both as a fellow creator and podcaster but also as a man and the service for the country as well as something that is of great admiration.
所以，感谢你所做的一切。我是你的忠实粉丝，既作为一名同行创作者也作为播客，但同时也作为一个男人以及为国家所做的服务令人十分钦佩。
So thank you Sean. Thank you. I was really excited to meet you and great job with what you're doing. Thank you so much. Thank you. YouTube have this new crazy algorithm where they know exactly what video you would like to watch next based on AI and all of your viewing behavior.
所以谢谢你，肖恩。谢谢。我真的很高兴见到你，干得好你所做的事。非常感谢。谢谢。YouTube有一个疯狂的新算法它能准确知道下一个视频你会想看哪一个，基于人工智能和你所有的观看行为。
And the algorithm says that this video is the perfect video for you. It's different for everybody looking right now. Check this video out and I bet you you might love
算法说这个视频是为你量身定制的完美视频。此刻每个人看到的都不一样。看看这个视频，我打赌你可能会喜欢
